Diversify Your Life - The Heartwork and Homework of Justice w/ Dani Coke
Insight: Your ability to cultivate a diverse personal life is directly tied to your ability to lead a diverse team
Action: Resist racism and pursue diversity in every area of your life.
For today’s conversation I had the absolute pleasure of sitting down with the one and the only Danielle Coke. You may know her as Oh Happy Dani on Instagram. Dani is an illustrator and advocate whose artwork and words are all about helping good people become better neighbors. She has been featured on the Today Show, in Forbes, on NBC, BuzzFeed, Alive News, and on USA Today.
What I love so much about Dani is that she is able to take complex ideas and even painful experiences and translate them into meaningful creations that as she says, “Speak to the heart of the matter.” She is just so down-to-earth, full of wisdom and joy. And in this conversation, she shares generously about what it looks like to do the heartwork and homework of antiracism in our everyday lives.
Transcript
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, diversity, moment, life, anti racism, book, racial identity, art, racial justice, person, gap, feel, create, space, post, applied, internalized racism, day, world, anti blackness
SPEAKERS
Bethaney Wilkinson, Dani Coke
Bethaney Wilkinson 00:00
Hey, did you know you can officially preorder my book. It's called the diversity gap where good intentions meet true cultural change. If you are struggling to pair your good intentions for organizational diversity with thoughtful, human centered and story driven practices, then this book is for you, and the book I share eight key insights and actions you can engage to create a diverse and liberating organizational culture. I also share some personal stories in the research I've done over the past three years about why diversity gaps exist and how everyday people can close them. It is good stuff and I'm so excited to share it with all of you. Visit www dot the diversity gap. com to pre order your copy today. Welcome to the diversity gap podcast. This is the book edition. My name is Bethany Wilkinson, and I am your host Hello, welcome to episode six of the book edition of the diversity gap podcast. We have made our way through the first five insights and actions from my book, and this episode is no different. In a few minutes, I'll be sharing an inspiring conversation I had with a friend on this topic. But before we get there, here's the key insight for chapter six. The key insight is that your ability to cultivate a diverse personal life is directly tied to your ability to lead a diverse team. Your ability to cultivate a diverse personal life is directly tied to your ability to lead a diverse team, pursuing diversity and creating a culture where liberation is possible is not just about what happens during your nine to five. It's about what's happening during your five to nine. Where do you live? Who are your neighbors? Where do your kids go to school? Where do you worship? All of these everyday experiences are opportunities for you to build meaningful relationships with new kinds of people. So what's the action item here? resist racism and pursue diversity and every area of your life and the books you read the people you follow in real life and align, start to make some shifts and see how your worldview changes. Now for today's conversation, I had the absolute pleasure of sitting down with the one and the only Danielle Koch. Or you may know her as Oh happy Danny on Instagram. Danny is an illustrator and advocate whose artwork and words are all about helping good people become better neighbors. She has been featured on the Today Show and Forbes on NBC BuzzFeed a live news and on USA Today. What I love so much about Danny is that she is able to take complex issues and ideas and even painful experiences and translate them into meaningful creations. That as she says, speak to the heart of the matter. She is just so down to earth full of wisdom and joy. And in this conversation, she shares generously about what it looks like to do the hard work and homework of anti racism in our everyday lives. So get ready, grab your coffee and your pen and let Jamie cook takes the school. Enjoy. All right, all right. Oh, Danny, thank you so much for being with me today and for occupying the space.
Dani Coke 03:31
I'm so excited that we get to have this talk. I've been a fan of you for a while. So this
Bethaney Wilkinson 03:36
is so fun. You're so kind. Well, I Okay, so my goals for our time today, I just want to talk about race, racial identity activism, maybe some creativity might even get into some entrepreneurship, because that's also a part of your life and your work. Yeah. The way I start off all my conversations is asking people, when did you first know that you had a race or a racial identity? And how did you know? Wow, yes.
Dani Coke 04:04
I've never been asked this question. And a moment came to my mind immediately. So I was in fifth grade. So I mean, I feel like I knew identity. Before then, of course, but the moment where I realized that it had an effect on how people treated me I was in elementary school. And I think it was fifth grade. But I was with my class we were lining up to go to I don't know recess, Jen. You know, we line up to go places. And so my last name is coaxed her to the sea. So I gravitated towards the front of the line because that's what you're supposed to do when you line up in alphabetical order. And I'm a white boy in my class was like, You're not supposed to be up here. You're supposed to be in the back of the line. And it was the first time that my identity I was able to connect my identity to negativity, I think that's the best way to describe it. Because I'm sure that I was aware I was black. But that was the first moment where I was aware that my blackness was viewed negatively in society. And so I think that was my very first moment where I realized, I think,
Bethaney Wilkinson 05:16
yeah, yeah. Do you find that? And I, I start with this question, because I'm curious about how all of our racial identities are formed. And when we know that they are real. When you think about like, your home context, as compared to that moment with that person, do you think Did you have an awareness of being a black person prior to even that negative moment? Hmm, well, what do you think that's so funny?
Dani Coke 05:39
I've never thought about it. But yes, I believe so. So I grew up in a Jamaican household. My both my parents are immigrants. And so my, my home life was always super filled with culture, and very rich with those experiences. So I being Jamaican was also a huge part of my identity. But I mean, even when I would play with toys, or have dolls or watch movies, I was, I was always aware of the fact that most of those characters, most of those dolls didn't look like me. I feel like I was always just aware, you know, I can't tie it to a specific moment that I remember kind of like that one. But I don't know, I just my family was just our culture was very rich, and our family was just always so close. And so I never, I never really viewed my identity outside of the richness of that culture. And then, you know, the toys I played with, I guess,
Bethaney Wilkinson 06:31
yeah, yeah. Well, how would you say that your racial identity has informed your creative trajectory? So I know, I'm like that question even as like a fast forward, like going from being a young person being five years old, having this interaction with this white kid in your class. And then fast forward to now to today? Like how as you reflect on your identity or trajectory, how do you see those things connected? Yeah.
Dani Coke 06:54
Well, when I was younger, I thought I wanted to be a veterinarian. I don't even have a pet and never had a pet. I don't know why I thought that would be the move. But my parents were like, yes, girl, Doctor, you know. And I know, culturally, it's not the norm for parents to kind of be like you be whatever you want to be, like, whatever you want to be. But in my household, that was the case. My parents always encouraged me to shoot for the stars. But then when I would get into more creative expression, like when I was starting to do art, and painting and drawing, they saw that I'm like, Girl, you do that you keep going. And when I got into music, and piano and singing, they're like, yeah, girl do that, too. And so they were always very supportive and invested throughout school, and the arts. And they would get my musician instruments, and they would get my art supplies. And they just were always supporting any direction I went in. And I went in a lot of different directions in the creative space. But when I got to high school, I realized I needed to pick a career. And nothing captured that full, entrepreneurial or expressive creative life that I thought I wanted to live, like there was no job title attached to that, that I could find. And so the thing that seemed the closest to that was event planning, because it just seems so fun. And I like to plan parties. And so I told my parents, and they were like, you do that? do that if you want. So they fully supported that. That's what I went instead of in college. But I feel as though that's not always the story for people who grow up in bipoc families. So I was just super excited and blessed to have a family that was just like you do what you want to do. On the outside looking in, like growing up in predominately white schools and neighborhoods and things like that. I can't say that I was negatively pushed in any other direction either. Like, oh, because you're black, you can't do art. I never had that experience. So I'm grateful for that as well. But I'm thankful for my parents that allowed me to just find my own path and even now I'm not doing event planning at all and my full life is creativity. I think they saw it coming along, honestly.
Bethaney Wilkinson 09:06
Oh, I yeah, that's so good. That's so good. Well as in thinking about your art and your creativity, one of my all time favorite quotes that I've ever seen you post I'm going to read it directly cuz I don't wanna mess it up. It is with every painful blow of injustice. The question should no longer be what easy thing can I do to help now but what hard things must I do to help for a lifetime? I just that quote really challenged me even as someone who's like in this racial justice space to be like, okay, is the ways or are the ways I'm showing up to racial injustice are the ways I'm addressing it now? Is this sustainable? Like, am I am I looking for easy things to do today? Well, let me do a workshop. Let me post on Instagram, as opposed to thinking about like, what are the sustainable things harder things I need to be doing? So that I can live a life that It's healthy and flourishing and all these things, um, as a black woman, so I'm curious to hear from you any thoughts you have? For people who are wanting to be more proactive? What are some of the harder things that you think would help us address racial injustice for the long term? Now, just what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, so
Dani Coke 10:21
I don't remember the specific, tragic event that triggered me to make that post. And I'm sure I could find it if I went back and look, but I do remember that what I was seeing in my community especially, was that first of all, the community was very diverse, of course, but also there was a large majority of white women who were there and just like, Oh, this is so sad, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. And I think it was resulting in a lot of performative activism where we would reshare my posts, like you said, like, we would do things on social media. And for me, it was like, I felt lacking. And so one thing that I aim to do with my work I say this often is I aim to speak to the heart of the matter, number one, and I aim to encourage people to take action in their hearts and in their homes. And I really believe that the heart work and the homework is the most important work. So when it comes to the hard work, I'm thinking like, okay, I would encourage people to sit down and really take an analysis of their internalized racism, internalized bias, the ways that we interact with other people, even oftentimes, without realizing what stereotypes do I uphold? What microaggressions? Have I been guilty of saying, or implying, like, what Where have I been either complicit or guilty of doing these things? And how can I make adjustments based on the information that I'm taking in with books, documentaries, movies, workshops, classes, and courses? Like how can I invest in that inner heart work would be number one. And I think I like to, I like to say that because it's easy to share posts, it's easy to even sign up for a workshop. But also, there's more ways you can do to support the people who put these things together, there's more things you can do to take ownership of that hard work in your in your own life. And so that's something that I would definitely always stress. And then the second thing is, in your home, I, I have another piece that says until you fix it in your heart and adjust it in your home, nothing changes in the world. And that basically is me, really stressing the importance of now that you're doing that work in your heart, you also are responsible for what's going on in your home. We don't want 20 years from now, a generation of people who are young now who are growing up to be, you know, these rogue mass shooters and people who are just doing hate crimes, and just spreading all this vitriol and hatred and racism. Because today we're doing the work to raise aware, conscious, anti racist children, who, because of the hard work that the parent has done, is able to reflect that in the homework that they will do as a family. And so whether that's changing the kind of media we consume, the kind of businesses we support, weekly activities that we do as a family documentaries that will watch having discussions and breaking things down and having arguments butting heads, not forsaking these relationships, but doing the hard work of building them up and working through the tension so that we can find that change that we need. So those are the two main categories that I'd like to stress.
Bethaney Wilkinson 13:35
Hard work and homework. Yeah. Do you find I didn't send this question ahead of time. But it came to mind as you were talking just now, do you find that the work for, say, white women is different? The heart work and homework for white women is different than for black women or other women of color? And if so, what how? Hmm.
Dani Coke 13:59
I would say yes and no. So the work is the same in the fact that we all because we are all affected by white supremacy, it's rooted, and we all suffer from it, or suffer from the effects of it, that we all have work to do to root out internalized anti blackness. So that I think that applies to white people and people of color, like we all that's the work we need to do. But I would also say no, and the fact that white people also on the other side of the coin benefit from white supremacy, and systemic racism. So that work is different in the fact that I think white women especially need to look at in their own lives, ways where they are benefiting inherently or, you know, pretty, obviously, from white supremacy in their own lives, their own circles and saying like, hmm, because I have this privilege. I'm going to take it and use it to help people of color who don't have that privilege and so That can be applied in many different contexts, especially when we're thinking of on the ground, doing the work day to day like we don't, that we have a responsibility to not let's say you're walking down the street and you see a black person walking in the street next to you, are you going to be micro aggressive and cross the street? Like, is that something you're going to do? Or are you going to be like, Hmm, this is a check. I have. I'm having a moment right here. This is a symptom of further work that needs to be done. I think that day to day work, that that stuff we don't really post about and talk about, because it's personal. Yeah, it's different for every person. And so I would say, yes, it's the same when it comes to anti blackness, internalized racism, it's different when it comes to the positive benefits that people white people experience due to white supremacy. And we all have work to do to dismantle it.
Bethaney Wilkinson 15:52
Yeah, gosh, it is. So it's so personal, even that work around internalized racism. I mean, I spend a lot of time journaling and writing and trying to be self reflective and things like that. And it's like, Okay, I'm having these moments of revelation or new understanding. And I think because it's 2021. And there is this bent toward social media. I'm like, do I need to convert this into some piece of content? where it's like, no, this is supposed to stay in my journal? Yes. He and me. Yes. It may be one other person. journeying with me, right? Yeah, yeah. Do you ever feel that tension? Like what's for me? What's for the world?
Dani Coke 16:32
Absolutely. There will be moments where I have a very specific moment. The other day, it's kind of similar to you. I started this little notebook, and I wrote on the front, good things. And in it, I literally just pour out good. I write affirmations that people tell me about myself, my favorite quotes, I'll cut out pictures of magazines and do like scrapbooking on certain pages. Like, I'm very intentional about the way I use that book. And for me, it was like a way of escape from all the other type of stuff I was having to pour into daily, I was like, I'm gonna take this time to really pour into good things for myself. And one day, I took a picture of a page of that book and posted it on my stories. And I was like, Oh, absolutely not, I immediately felt that gut check of that was for uses take that down. And so I definitely have those moments where, even when it comes to I was contemplating, like, should I start a YouTube channel, like, should I blog? I attempted blogging one time, it felt so invasive, like, My home is my sacred space. And as someone with a platform, a lot of my life is online. And I don't want my private life and the ways I'm finding joy to always be on display for the entire world. So yes, long story short,
Bethaney Wilkinson 17:42
I have had those moments. Yeah, that's such a beautiful, I think that's such a beautiful boundary for yourself. And for your work. I just love that. So it kind of along those lines having been in, like the racial justice education space for some time, I know that whenever there is like another wave of magic, like I'm calling it a wave of injustice, but that doesn't feel like enough, like it doesn't feel heavy enough, or serious enough. But every time there is another, specifically black life loss to state violence or any kind of violence. I know for me, it kind of makes me step back and evaluate all the things I'm doing. And it just kind of challenges me to make sure that I'm moving in alignment, I guess, like, What do I have to offer the world? How is this addressing the problem that I'm seeing? And so I'm wondering, how did the different like blows of injustice impact your work as an activist? Does it change anything? Just so what are some of your thoughts around that? Yes.
Dani Coke 18:41
So as an artist who often has art that circulates during times like this, I think there's an assumption that we are waiting for the next tragic thing just so we can sit down and crank out just this beautiful piece of art, just affected, inspired by tragedy. And I, I absolutely do not want to live my life that way. And I absolutely do not live my life that way. When when something like that happens, my gut instinct and reaction is not to pick up my Apple Pencil and start drawing on my bed. I grieve, I grieve, like the rest of us do. And I even made it a practice to not even attempt to draw anything for several days. I need to figure out one, what this means for us what this means for me, how am I doing physically, emotionally, mentally, am I okay? And then I, I'm like, Okay, once I've processed through all of that, or have at least gotten made progress, what do I need to say? Because I don't say everything. And this is a very important part of my work. I believe. I said before, I do my best to speak to the heart of the matter. I don't record breaking news. I don't post like this person has died. This person. Just But that is just not how I'm able to operate in the space. And I'm grateful for people who can, I'm not able to do that. And so I say, Okay, this has happened, what do I want to communicate to my audience as a result of this, that one speaks to this specific moment, but also can long term speak to us as humans, it's making a resource that can withstand the test of time, tragic moment, because I can make something that's very specific, and speaks to what happened. And the stories are deserving of that attention. Absolutely. But I also find power in making something that is almost evergreen in the sense of, I want somebody to see this and remember this moment, and also be challenged to take this thought and apply it to their everyday life. So it stays with them forever, kind of like the quote that you had mentioned, it was inspired by a specific piece of a specific moment, but the piece can now be applied. And so that is where I put my, my energy and attention into doing that, because I cannot I cannot keep up if I do otherwise. And I cannot create if it's always tied to death and trauma. Yeah,
Bethaney Wilkinson 21:12
yep. What words of encouragement or direction would you maybe give to other black women who are trying to discern what their role is, if any, in the, I want to say in the racial justice space, but but maybe not, I find that a lot of black women, they end up having to be like this activist racial justice champion, even if they are, that has nothing to do with their actual sense of calling, but because of the black person in the room? Or maybe they're the quickest to articulate what's going on, like, they end up carrying that burden, or responsibility. And so yeah, what words of encouragement or again, direction would you give to other black women who are trying to discern their, their role in all of this?
Dani Coke 21:56
Absolutely. We've talked about how I feel about present purpose, and what that means, and how I feel like it's at the intersection of, you know, your skills and your passions and the perceived need that you see being filled in the world. And I think what's interesting about that perceived need, I put the word perceived in front of it, because the need in the world with respect to you and where you are, can change, you know, two years ago, a lot of us wouldn't have said that, the need I need to feel right now is anti racism, education. It just not all of us were fully invested into the work at that time. And so I would say, what you do to bring beauty into the space and also to bring, you know, love and light into the space and do the work is gonna be a reflection of what you already do to make the world beautiful, like in your daily life, what you're already passionate about the skills that you already have. I think that it's supposed to come natural, that doesn't always mean it's going to be easy, but you'll get the most out of it. And you'll feel the most fulfilled, if it's something that's a natural bend for you. So for me, that was art, that was creativity is what I've done all my life. And being able to identify that perceived need in the moment for myself in my platform was anti racism education. And so I used those skills to make that happen in a way that made sense for me and respecting my own personal boundaries of how I create. And so that can be be applied to, I think, multiple disciplines. Like, if even if you're a writer, let's say you want to write something that maybe isn't always about racism, but uses your personal stories, maybe uses your experiences and your skill of writing, to create something that maybe has a positive effect on the conversation of anti racism has a positive effect on the Justice space, and is able to make change where you see fit. So I definitely think that the best piece of advice I could give is to find what comes natural to you use your your skills and your talents and be creative in the way that you connect it to anti racism, if you feel like that's your calling, then whatever. And that could also be applied to whatever issue or a cause that that matters to you. And that's something that I even want to express as I in the future one day expand beyond antiracism and all sorts of things. That's something I want to also remind other people, no matter what you're passionate about, like you can use what you've got to make a difference there.
Bethaney Wilkinson 24:29
Yeah, well, that's like a really that's a beautiful segue into my last big question, then we have a lightning round. I'm wondering when you think 10 years or look 10 years into the future? What do you what do you hope your work looks like? Like what are you dreaming about? What do you what do you want to make tell me all the things
Dani Coke 24:46
it's so funny, because this past year was so absolutely unexpected. I could have never in a million years been like yeah, a year from now. I'm gonna do this, but no 10 years. I can tell you. I really want to Create resources, educational resources that people can hold in their hands, and again have in their homes beyond the art that I create. Even though I want to definitely keep doing that, I also want to create tangible pieces of work that people can use. And so I can see myself going down more of an art route, as well as more of an educational resource route. And then I also want to maybe one day to happen to the faith space and help bring in beautiful resources that honor the struggle and talk specifically and honestly about justice, while also having that spiritual aspect there. So with there are resources, more resources available, that don't cut corners, and aren't super passive, but are also still approachable, and beautiful and effective. And so that is what I want to do possibly one day. And then yeah, there's a bunch of other projects in the works that are blowing my mind, even as I sit here, but I think the future The possibilities are so endless. The future is so big, and I have space to pivot as well if I feel so inclined. So yeah, that's kind of 10 years. I don't know, but one day, I want to do a combination of these things.
Bethaney Wilkinson 26:28
Okay, lightning round. Yeah. Five lightning round questions. Number one, what is your favorite story of all time?
Dani Coke 26:36
Favorite story? Lightning. Okay, favorite story of all time. Okay, so I really like Disney. I love Disney a lot. And so the thing that went to my mind very quickly was Moana. I identify very specifically with marijuana. I feel like she is me. And I'm her. And so if I have to answer really quickly, I'm going to say she came to my mind first, and her story of her life is more than my favorite stories.
Bethaney Wilkinson 27:06
Wow. Me too. It's such a good one. What is the last book you read and loved?
Dani Coke 27:13
Ooh. So I'm at the tail end of this book. So I think I can say it but the ruthless elimination of hurry by john Mark Homer. It's wrecking me. And it is incredible. I've learned so much from that book.
Bethaney Wilkinson 27:25
Oh, that's so good. Yeah, I like that one, too. If you could have dinner with one person dead or alive? Who would you choose?
Dani Coke 27:35
One person dead or alive? Oh my gosh, Michelle Obama. That was my answer to I was like, okay, who's the first person that's gonna pop in because I promise it was blank. And then I saw Michelle.
Bethaney Wilkinson 27:54
Oh, me too, girl. Me too. Um, name one song that would be on the soundtrack to your life.
Dani Coke 28:01
You got to be by Des'ree. You got to be big. You got to be bold. I love that song.
Bethaney Wilkinson 28:09
So good. Okay, last one. How can everyday people close the gap between their good intentions for diversity and true cultural change?
Dani Coke 28:18
Yeah, taking personal responsibility to do what it takes within your own sphere of influence to bring about the change that you want to see in the world.
Bethaney Wilkinson 28:28
You are a wise soul, Dani Coke. Thankful for you. Thank you for opening up your story and just sharing your wisdom. And I know you're busy, and you have a lot going on. So thank you for giving a little bit of time to me and to the diversity gap Academy. Yes, thank you so much for having me truly a pleasure. Thanks, again, for checking out this episode of the diversity gap podcast. I loved learning from Danny, I'm really still sitting with this whole idea of doing the hard work and the homework of racial justice and social change. When it comes to most issues that we're facing in society and in our organizations. I imagine that it is both of those things. It's the internal attitudes and perspectives and heart postures that need to change. As well as the external practices and habits and policies and time and money and resource allocations. All of those things have to change too. And so while it can seem overwhelming, I just hope you're encouraged today to figure out what it looks like for you and your slice of the world to be a bit more intentional about the hard work and homework of racial justice. For more content and education on what it looks like to close diversity gaps in your everyday life and leadership. Please consider pre ordering the diversity gap where good intentions meet true cultural change. You can learn more at www dot the diversity gap com and if these sorts of resources are helpful to you, we Share new ones every single month over at WWW dot the diversity gap academy.com via our Patreon page, you can become a subscriber and receive access to exclusive bonus content all year long. Thanks again friends and until next time may your good intentions for diversity lead to true cultural change.