Welcome to The Diversity Gap Podcast!
Episode Summary: Welcome to The Diversity Gap Podcast where we are exploring the gap between good intentions and good impact as it relates to diversity, equity, and inclusion.
Episode Notes: In this episode Bethaney Wilkinson, Creator and Host of The Diversity Gap, shares her story and her vision for The Diversity Gap Project. As she sits down with co-worker, Kayla Stagnaro, together they invite us into the ever-unfolding conversation around how to honor our stories and the stories around us.
The Diversity Gap is a two-year exploration into the gap between good intentions and good impact. You can learn more at www.thediversitygap.com.
Transcript
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, diversity, racism, race, learning, kayla, conversation, feel, white, project, story, happening, thinking, organization, gap, inclusion, equity, hear, whiteness, intentions
SPEAKERS
Bethaney Wilkinson, Kayla Stagnaro
Bethaney Wilkinson 00:00
So I sat down across the table from one of my mentors. And my whole goal for this conversation was to try and explain some of the racism I was experiencing in this particular context. And even though I done all of my like pre thinking and wrote down all of my thoughts, and it was so neat and organized, when I sat down in the actual conversation, I could not, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Like, I had all of the, I don't know, like all the anxiety of like my body overheating, and I'm like, am I using the right words? Am I being too direct? Am I rambling? Does this make sense? I'm about to start crying. And then I'm also hyper aware of the other person I'm talking to. And I'm like, Okay, well, how much of this is their work to do? How much is my work to do? Gosh, it was a lot all happening in one moment, over the course of one conversation. And it was in the midst that I realized, man, I know that the intentions and the situation are really, really great. I know that she has great intentions. I know that our leaders have great intentions. But at the end of the day, the impact on me and on the people who look like me in this space, the impact just really isn't that great. Welcome to The Diversity Gap Podcast, where we are exploring the gap between good intentions and good impact as it relates to diversity, equity and inclusion. My name is Bethaney Wilkinson and I am your host. Welcome to The Diversity Gap podcast. Welcome to this first episode. My name is Bethaney, your host, and I'm here with my friend Kayla Stagnaro. Hello, glad you're here. Thanks for doing this with me, of course, I'm really excited to be here. And so this is the launch of not only this project, I mean, the project has been going for a little while but of this podcast. And so I thought it would be helpful to do an episode where I'm able to introduce who I am and this project and some of the big themes and topics that you'll probably hear about over the course of you're listening to this first season. And so I invited my friend Kayla here because we're we kind of do a lot of this work together. We're on a journey of understanding our identities and what it means for organizations and culture and family. And so I thought it'd be really great to talk with a friend.
Kayla Stagnaro 02:26
Yes. But also didn't want Bethaney to be interviewing herself.
Bethaney Wilkinson 02:31
Cause that's awkward. Yes.
Kayla Stagnaro 02:34
So I'm here to help ask some questions and guide the conversation so you can learn more about what's coming.
Bethaney Wilkinson 02:41
Yeah. Well, thanks. Do you want to start with the first question?
Kayla Stagnaro 02:44
Yes. Who are you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Bethaney Wilkinson 02:47
Yeah. Okay. So I love this question and kind of hate it because it's awkward to be like, This is who I am. My name is Bethaney Bree Wilkinson, and I am married to a wonderful human named Alex Wilkinson. We are both from Georgia, I grew up on a farm in central Georgia, about an hour outside of Atlanta. And the older I get, the more being like, the more being from the south and being from the rural south is like an important part of my story, my identity. So that's who I am. I am very nerdy. I love reading. I love books. I love just sitting around and thinking about things. That's like my favorite way to spend my time. And yeah, I'm really passionate about racial equity, reconciliation, social good. I just want to see the world be a better place. And I really believe in the power of individuals to affect change. So that's some of who I am.
Kayla Stagnaro 03:42
Awesome. Can you tell us what inspired the creation of this project?
Bethaney Wilkinson 03:46
Yes. Gosh. So when I sit down to think about why I started this project, and many other racial justice projects, it's because I'm normally really frustrated with something I'm sometimes I'm heartbroken about, like what's happening in our society related to race. But that heartbreak usually gives way to frustration, like why aren't we doing this better? Or why isn't this being translated more effectively? Or why isn't this conversation more constructive? And so I remember I guess in this sometime last year, I was talking with a friend about all of these really beautiful and kind of lofty ideas about like what's possible as it relates to race and relationships. And I remember leaving that meeting thinking like this is great, I love all the vision you have for diversity in your organization. But like what's your plan to get there? Give me the strategy like there's a clear gap here between what you say you value and what I see actually happening in your in your community. And so I think this project in some ways truthfully is born of that frustration. I'll also say though, I mean, I'm personally curious, like how does change happen and and what can we do to make change happen? Um, and then in a very personal way, I am a black woman who lives a pretty cross cultural, multi-ethnic life. And so And by that, I mean like my relationships where I spend my time, I'm always like jumping between different cultures and groups of people. And so. So that also inspired it like there are there are ways that we can honor each other and see each other and we can be different and be together, and it's doable. And so how can I kind of learn more about that, and then also bring some stories and resources and insights to bear for the for the common good? So yeah, all of those things.
Kayla Stagnaro 05:36
That's awesome. So when you're talking about this project, you're talking about The Diversity Gap, right? Oh, yeah. Yes. And so tell us more about like, the different aspects of this project?
Bethaney Wilkinson 05:47
Ooh, great question. So on one hand, so behind the scenes, I'm doing a lot of research, my goal over the next year or so is to interview 100, Black indigenous people of color, who are in majority white majority culture, context or spaces, because I really want to understand the experience of exclusion beyond my own story. And so and I also think it's really important to learn from the people most impacted by the problem to get an understanding of what the solutions are. So that's a part of what I'm doing. And then through those 100 interviews, and also, I'm also hoping to find 10 case, study organizations that I can like do a deeper dive to learn from who they are, what they do, what are their structures, so that I can find some promising practices for building diverse cultures. So that's all kind of on the bat, like behind the scenes on the front end of the project. And there's this podcast, there's an event, I hope to write a book, I hope it becomes a curriculum. Yeah, all trying to answer this question like, what's the gap between our intentions and our impact? And how do we how do we close that gap?
Kayla Stagnaro 06:54
That's awesome. I think one thing I love about Bethaney doing this project is that she is making it approachable and kind of breathing new life into this sometimes hard, or almost always hard conversation. And so I think it's, it's really encouraging and approachable for all people, which I think is awesome. Thanks. Okay. So Bethaney, you've alluded to some different kind of moments that have inspired the creation of this project, could you maybe share a specific time that leads to this project?
Bethaney Wilkinson 07:31
The story that comes to mind, I think this was in the fall of last year, and I had just finished reading White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo. And I was also prepping a talk on race and like cultures of diversity for a group of entrepreneurs and the plywood community. So for those of you who don't know, I work for a nonprofit called Plywood People. And we lead a community of startups doing good. And in my role, I do a lot of work with our programs and with just making sure that the entrepreneurs in our community are feeling inspired and learning and getting what they need to thrive, right. So I was leading this workshop or prepping this workshop on race and diversity, reading White Fragility, having a very racially sensitive week, I was just hyperaware of my own story and how it was happening in spaces. And so over the course of that week, I had multiple interactions with my boss that were challenging for me racially, and I'm sure he won't mind me telling this story, it ends well, um, but, but I, like had these moments throughout the week that were really hard. And I felt really misunderstood. And there were moments where I perceived that I was experiencing some kind of othering, or frustrated that he wasn't understanding racism in the way that I thought would be helpful and all these different things. And so I was feeling all of this. I think at some point in that week, I pulled Kayla aside, probably, I think I did, I probably did sense my normal course of action, and explained what I was feeling to her and I just processed it more. And then eventually, I was like, I'm just gonna have to like, talk to Jeff about this. Jeff's a white man, I'm a black woman. He's my boss. And this is like a common dynamic that I feel like people of color experience in the workplace like, Okay, I'm experiencing these things. It's hard. It's frustrating. I feel like it's problematic. What are you going to do? So I texted, I'm like, Hey, can we talk about these things? And when I got to the office, he made it a top priority, and we sat down. And you know what he did? He listened to me. And he asked me good questions. And he apologized and took responsibility, not for his intentions, but for the impact of those intentions on me as a woman of color on his team. And it was in that moment that I felt incredibly seen and credibly heard. And I felt like we could continue to partner in pursuing like racial equity for our organization. And so I tell that whole story because it was one of the first times I sat with like a white leader, who did not make me feel more crazy because I was naming The racism I was experiencing in a context normally, that's what happens like, I, as a black woman, sit down with a white person, friend or boss, and I try to explain to them what's happening. And they make me feel like I'm the crazy one or I need to go to counseling, or I will, I should just be okay with the fact that they had good intentions. And there's no like, yeah, I don't care about your intentions, actually, this is what's happening. And I just so appreciated in that moment that Jeff was just like, Yeah, tell me more helped me understand this. And at no point did he make his process my responsibility, he just listened to me, and validated my experience and apologize. It was great. And I was like, maybe we can find more stories like this, if we ask. That's awesome.
Kayla Stagnaro 10:43
That's, I think, inspiring and challenging in so many different ways, not just work relationships, but personal as well. So this project, The Diversity Gap is almost a response to tensions we've seen within our own organization, and then also the greater pilot community and beyond. So tell us who is this podcast for?
Bethaney Wilkinson 11:07
So this podcast is for any person who is driving cultural and organizational change. And so I'm thinking of people of color who are working in majority white cultural institutions, some people who are actually like, on committees to solve the problem of diversity and inclusion, but then also people who are just kind of living this life every day, I hope that they are able to hear stories that are encouraging and affirming and help them find their way. And but then it's also for like, executive directors and board chairs, people who have like organizational institutional authority, so that they have I don't know, that they feel also encouraged in their work, and that they have like stories and ideas for ways to make more diverse and inclusive cultures. And so, um, those are the two groups of people I have in mind.
Kayla Stagnaro 11:57
Awesome. Okay, what is this podcast not?
Bethaney Wilkinson 12:02
it's not going to be perfect. That feels important to be honest about when we start talking about like, race, identity, like systems, we just, it's usually kind of messy and sometimes clumsy. So it's not going to be perfect. I know that for sure. It's also not going to give all the answers. I mean, my hope is that through learning from some of these voices, again, we'll have our own questions and stories reflected back to us. But it takes like some work outside of listening to a podcast to figure out how to translate this work into your real life. And so this isn't going to be like a one stop shop to get everything you need to solve diversity in your organization or in your life. But wouldn't that be nice? When that'd be nice, but then it'd be kind of boring, too. Oh, yeah. So it's, it's not going to be perfect. It's not going to be? It's not going to answer every question out there. And it's not going to solve the problem entirely. But I think we'll see our stories reflected. And that's powerful. That's great. Okay, so I want to press pause here to set you up for success. And this next part of my conversation with Kayla, we are about to dig into some terms and definitions that will be helpful for you, as you listen into this first season. Super important. Establishing common language around big ideas like race and diversity is essential if we're going to have a constructive learning experience. So that being said, I'm aware that some of you are super fluent in this topic, while others of you are brand new to this conversation. If you find yourself tuning out, because it's all too familiar, I totally get that, feel free to move to the next episode. But if you find yourself struggling to keep up, that's okay, too. If you're newer to this conversation, feel free to pause throughout and take your time to think more deeply about each word after we share it. My goal is that this episode is an introduction to ideas that we'll be exploring over the course of this podcast and the project as a whole. For many of these terms, it's taken me years to wrap my mind around them. And my understanding is always shifting and always deepening. So take your time, be present, and trust that we'll get to the other side. Okay, back to the conversation.
Kayla Stagnaro 14:18
Alright, so one of the big reasons we're kind of doing this intro first episode is to explain and talk about the some of the language that it's going to be coming up in all the episodes after this, Bethany and I are going to define some terms and talk through some of that. And let's start with the term diversity. Can you give some language to that?
Bethaney Wilkinson 14:42
Yeah, yeah. So I've been for this project. Obviously, when you name something after it's called The Diversity Gap. It's important to be specific. And in one of my interviews with a friend, she defined diversity as the undeniable presence of difference, the undeniable presence of different friends. And what I love about that definition is that it gives voice to the fact that diversity isn't just about race or ethnicity. There's gender diversity, there's diversity of military status, ability status. Are you from Central Georgia? Are you from New York City like it really diversity is really just about like, all of the different identities that we hold, and that we bring to any table or conversation. I think it gets hairy sometimes, because leaders will say we want diversity, I'm doing air quotes, they say we want diversity, and they really just mean they want more people of color in the room. And I think it's helpful to distinguish or to be specific, like when you say you want diversity, what do you mean, and why do you mean that, but in its base sense, diversity is really just about having different kinds of people. Be in a space together. And so, yeah, that's diversity.
Kayla Stagnaro 15:51
That's great. I think you've said too, or I've heard you say before, a lot of these terms are defined in different ways by different people. Yeah. So I think it's helpful to note that if somebody defined something differently than maybe Bethaney, she'll make sure you know, that person she's interviewing will, will speak to that.
Bethaney Wilkinson 16:10
Oh, yeah. And I do want to say one more thing on that, too. i It's funny, before I named the project, The Diversity Gap, I talked to lots of people about the name. And there was like this common sense that like, Oh, that's a great name, but also like, Oh, we're so tired of the word diversity. And I spent time trying to find another word that captured what diversity means. And it's like the only one I mean, we can say, multitude or multitude, no identities, like there are other things we could say. But it doesn't quite have the same ring to it. And so I think that's one of the gifts and challenges of language, right? Like it, we have a word that means something specific, but then it gets so diluted when it's used a lot. So yeah, I just want to name that because I'm sure some people are thinking that.
Kayla Stagnaro 16:54
That's good. Yeah. All right. Up next, the word inclusion.
Bethaney Wilkinson 16:58
Ah, yes. So this word is kind of newer to my vocabulary. Actually, I find that so I come from a church faith based racial reconciliation background where the word inclusion wasn't used that often. And so but as I've gotten into research more with like, organizations, teams, corporations, inclusions, the word and inclusion is pretty much the idea. Like if you have a diversity of people around a table, to what extent does every person around that table feel like they belong, or they can participate, like they can be a part of what's happening. And so it's about more than just having a diverse group of people in a room, but it's about every person in that room feeling like they can belong, and participate and lead and bring their gifts to the table. So it's kind of taking that idea of representation one step further, and giving voice to the idea that all people can actually influence the space that they're in.
Kayla Stagnaro 17:53
That's good. That's like the next level beyond diversity. Right?
Bethaney Wilkinson 17:59
Yeah.
Kayla Stagnaro 18:00
Okay. And then can you speak to the word equity?
Bethaney Wilkinson 18:02
Oh, yeah. So gosh, I'm trying to think of how to tee this up, because there are lots of different ways to understand it. So maybe I can give voice to the few ways that come to mind. When I think of equity at first, the first definition that comes to mind is that if people are having or being treated equitably, it means that every person has what they need to thrive. And so some of you, some of you have probably seen graphics online, where it distinguishes between equity and equality, equality would be giving everyone the same thing, like everyone in this room gets a size pair of shoes. But equity would be well, everyone in this room gets the size of the size shoes that they need to run the race. And so it's about making the adjustments needed for everyone to have what they need to thrive and to do their thing. The other way I think of equity, though, is is this idea that if we lived in an equitable society, we would no longer be able to predict outcomes based on aspects of people's identities. And so one example that comes to mind we were talking about this months ago, um, was during Black maternal health awareness month, or week, I think it was a week Black Maternal Health Awareness Week, essentially, black women die at a much higher rate than white women throughout the pregnancy process throughout the birthing process. This is you can Google this there are just tons of research done on this phenomenon. If we lived in a racially equitable society, Kayla and I would have the same likelihood across the board. But currently, as it stands me as a black woman, I'm more likely to have complications due to pregnancy than Kayla, and it's based on race. And so there's more to that, of course, but equity is about making those disparities go away.
Kayla Stagnaro 19:51
That's yeah, that's a really great and tough example, but I think helpful and explaining it. How would you define Race?
Bethaney Wilkinson 20:01
oh, race. Okay, so I thought it was important to name race because, again, like I said, diversity can be so many things. And oftentimes I'm thinking about race and ethnicity. And that's what I'm bringing to bear in the conversations that I'm having. And so race is a socially constructed idea where we sort and organize people based on the color of their skin. Now that's in the United States race. In reality, it looks different in different societies. But in our society, it's a social construct, where we sort and organize people based on the color of their skin. And it's always hierarchical. So there's always someone who's higher up and someone who's lower, and then in the United States, again, in that hierarchy, white is at the top, and then Black is at the bottom. And then based on the extent to which you reflect, quote, unquote, whiteness or quote unquote, blackness according to social norms and understandings of those cultures. It affects whether you move up or down that ladder. So that's kind of a simplistic overview of it, but it's pretty much something that humans just made up to conquer, control and divide the world.
Kayla Stagnaro 21:09
Alright, so you use this word whiteness? I did. Can you tell us more about that?
Bethaney Wilkinson 21:15
Yeah. Well, I think I find sometimes that people aren't used to like, me correct. Lots of time, white people aren't used to just like naming the things right? Like even saying white,
Kayla Stagnaro 21:27
right? Even saying, I'm a white woman.
Bethaney Wilkinson 21:29
Yeah, like, it feels kind of weird. And unless you practice, right, I would imagine, yes, it does. Okay. And so, so yeah, it's just important to name these things. When I think whiteness, I'm thinking of like white cultural norms. Now, I think it's tricky to know that there are white cultural norms, because in the United States, we, a lot of people perceive that white cultural norms are universal, that they're normal, that they're normal. Yes, wait, what are you thinking?
Kayla Stagnaro 21:58
I mean, just along those lines, I think, the more I've been kind of learning and reading, it's we so often, I'm a white woman, we see, like our way as the best way, the normal way, just how everybody else should do things
Bethaney Wilkinson 22:15
People don't know that the white way of doing things is just one cultural way of doing it exactly. And then it gets tricky when the white cultural way of doing things becomes like the organizational norm or the institutional norm. And it's seen as more valuable or more right or more good, because then it gets like codified in our bylaws, and in our values, and then all the structures of the way we do things. And it makes it really hard to do life with someone who's not white. So I thought it'd be helpful to hear I'm always intrigued by like, what we're taught about racism, and then what we learn that it is later in life if we pursue new learning on it. And so I want to know from you, Kayla, what were you taught that racism is?
Kayla Stagnaro 22:57
And I, I think back to this one moment. I don't think I've shared this story with you before, but I remember being at my house, and I remember like kind of recognizing race for the first time. I can't I think I was about probably six or seven. And my parents and my grandparents were at the house and there was something wrong in the basement, something was leaking. And this man he was a black man came over and he fixed, fixed it. And I remember my grandpa saying, Well, he was a really nice man. And I just remember that. That's it. That's all that was said. And I've thought back on that like moment, so many times. And at first, I was like, Why? Why did he say that? And you know, being five or six, you don't have words to put to that. But that moment has stuck with me, you know, for 20 plus years. And I've thought back on it. I'm like, Oh, now I understand, because of his bias and his the way he grew up and the things that he thinks that was a moment when race played into just a normal everyday encounter. And then I think I kind of was taught that was like an over action that I can look back and kind of see my thinking, changing or seeing just seeing race. But then I also think back like what I was taught and what I think so many other people in the school I grew up in is that like, well, race doesn't exist. It's this idea of colorblindness and how when you see race if you talk about it, that it's bad. And again, like I think I was taught specifically about racism, that it doesn't exist anymore. And it wasn't until probably probably high school that I started to think differently.
Bethaney Wilkinson 25:07
Yeah. Wow. Hmm. I think my what I was taught about racism is similar. Like, actually, I got two pretty conflicting messages about racism. So there's school where I learned, like, racism happened in the 60s, the Martin Luther King happened, and now everything's great. That was like, done the story. Um, I was confused by that, because I also lived in a place where people wore lots of Confederate flags. And like Dixie outfitters was a cool brand. And some like, wait a second, I thought that was dealt with in the 60s. But it's what 2000. And I'm arguing with my class member about why her T shirts racist, but I digress. So that was like, so there's like the whole school learning, but socially, and then academically. But then in my home, I feel like I grew up in a black family, a southern black family who grew up in like South Georgia. So I mean, lots of racism in a lot of ways. Lots of community too. But that's a story for another time. But I think from my family, I learned that racism is alive and well, and you Little black girl better work your tail off. To stay safe, and to learn everything you can and to I don't know, just to like earn your keep in the world. And so, yeah, I think that's kind of a combination of lessons that I learned all the ones.
Kayla Stagnaro 26:28
Okay, so that's kind of both of our personal experiences with race and racism. Do you want to break it down into there's kind of four different ways we like to talk about it?
Bethaney Wilkinson 26:38
Yeah, this is great. So big picture. Racism is not just about like what individuals do to one another. I think a lot of us even in our stories, that's a little bit of what we were taught, right? Like, this is the thing that the bad person does to people, good people. But reality is racism is a system of advantage and disadvantage based on race and has a lot of different faces. I think I'm gonna start bigger and go smaller, big picture. There's like structural racism. So this is like racism that exists across institutions, across history, even I mean, if you think of something like mass incarceration, which is a huge problem in society these days, Bryan Stevenson often talks about how slavery didn't end, it just transformed. And so like, if you were to trace slavery up until mass incarceration, you see that it's a lot of the same idea. So that's like structural racism playing out across history, across across institutions, then there's institutional racism. So that's like the racism that exists within the organization, within the business within the church, within the small group, whatever it might be. It often shows up as bias, kind of those moments where we're like, we were talking about white supremacy, where it's like, oh, this is like the way we do things like this cultural norm, the cultural norms that are actually racial cultural norms. how those play out oftentimes, is racism within an institution. When I'm trying to figure out if racism is at play somewhere, I often ask who thrives here, who has the most access to authority here to influence and if it's almost always white people than I'm a then flagged that racism is at play, again, not based on a person's like emotional intention, but based on the system of advantage that's created for white people in that institution. So I know that can be hard to hear. For some white leaders who like, I'm not racist. This this the water we're swimming in is racist. So it's not up to you. Yeah, so there's that next and this one's pretty, it's a little bit easier. It's interpersonal racism. So it's like between two people or a few people, it's relational. It is, I think it is some of like, the racial slurs that are used, um, but then it's also micro aggression, this little things that people say and do that just remind people who aren't white, or aren't majority culture that they don't belong, like, example, that happens all the time for some of my Asian American friends. It's like, where are you from? I have one friend. She's Chinese. She's from Memphis, Tennessee, born and raised. Her parents are from Memphis, Tennessee, born and raised. But people want to know her ethnicity, but they keep asking where are you from? And that's like, a, it's a microaggression. And it's a manifestation of interpersonal racism. And I know that again, people mean well, but we're learning in this journey, how to claim not what we intended, but what the impact of that intention is. And so yeah, you mean well, but the, the impact of that makes that person feel other than like, they don't belong. So let's circle back and maybe ask What's your ethnicity? That's instead of where are you from, but anyway, there's interpersonal racism. And then I've been thinking a lot about internalized racism, because I think this is like a huge opportunity for all people. So internalized racism is that same belief some people are better than others based on the color of their skin, the way it shows up for white people, I'm told is in this internalized superiority. So this like belief that I'm better, my way is better, my ideas are better, my voice is more worthy of being heard. And it's it's internalized, it's not always conscious. And the way it shows up for people of color is in internalized inferiority, My ways are not better, My ways are not good enough. I can't trust my instincts, I need to make myself smaller to make space for the people who are more worthy to be here. And so I think that there's a lot of work that we can do around this internalized piece of racism, and learning how to see it when it shows up and learning how to work against that tide. When it's there.
Kayla Stagnaro 30:40
I have this one story comes to mind, because it just happened yesterday. But my mom is was telling me a story about her talking to one of her friends about having a black grandson and a white granddaughter. And she was saying that she was kind of repeating what we've said, it's really important to my husband and I that our son who's black, grew up in an area be in a school, where he's around people that look like him. So when my mom was saying this to her friend, her friend was like, Well, what about your granddaughter, like, she's gonna feel like the minority then. And she just could not wrap her head around, that my son Isaiah would feel that if the situation were flipped, and, you know, we've kind of always said, for our daughter, she will have the experience of not being othered at every other aspect of our life. And it'll be challenging, I'm sure her being a minority in, in school, but we can work through that. And for Isaiah, he doesn't have that choice or that option to be around people that look like him, especially when he comes home. And so that's one small way. You know, we can we can have that opportunity for him. But I feel like that's a example of like interpersonal racism where this like woman cannot even fathom. And she would never say she's racist. Right. Right. But that's an example of how it plays out. Yeah, interpersonally.
Bethaney Wilkinson 32:14
Wow. Yeah.
Kayla Stagnaro 32:16
Do you have any other thoughts around those words or definitions?
Bethaney Wilkinson 32:21
And no, I just I hope it's helpful to people, I think it's we define language not because like, oh, we have to be politically correct, whatever that means. It's really just about making sure that we can have a constructive conversation and, and that we can practice using language that's dignifying to people. And then again, a lot of these words come up in conversations that I'm having with people in this podcast, and I want everyone to be able to understand what we're talking about, because we don't always pause to define it. And this interviews.
Kayla Stagnaro 32:50
Alright, let's wrap up and tell us what do you want people to leave after hearing? This podcast specifically, but also the ones after this?
Bethaney Wilkinson 33:03
Yeah, um, what I am realizing this more and more, one of my deepest convictions, beliefs and desires is that every human being would feel equipped to own their story and talk about race and difference. Period, like not talk about it perfectly, not always get things right. You can't always get things right. But that you would feel empowered and equipped to like, do your own work and to figure out what your own contribution is to creating a more equitable, loving just society. Like, if you live in a city like Atlanta, the question isn't like, oh, is this a diverse place? Is it not? It's like, No, you're you have the chance to encounter difference all the time. And you can either shy away from that and be afraid of it or you can lean way in and have a more rich and interesting and beautiful life. And you get to learn so much about yourself. Like it's a really hard journey, but it's incredibly rewarding. And I want people to begin fumbling their way through creating it. And so that's what I really hope happens that people just feel equipped and inspired to drive change.
Kayla Stagnaro 34:06
Yes, I think it's already doing that.
Bethaney Wilkinson 34:18
Thank you for listening to The Diversity Gap podcast. If you've been challenged or inspired by what you've heard, please rate and review the show. You can also subscribe to make sure you never miss an episode. If you have thoughts or questions I'd love to hear from you connect with me at TheDiversityGap.com or on Instagram at The Diversity Gap. This episode was produced by DJ opdiggy for Soul Graffiti Productions.