Bonus Episode - The Diversity Gap x The Creative Rising

Episode Summary: This bonus episode of The Diversity Gap pocast is a re-broadcast of The Creative Rising podcast, hosted by Blake Howard. In this episode, Bethaney is in the interviewee seat, as Blake interviews her about culture, diversity in the creative industry, and what leaders can do to support diversity work in their companies and organizations.

This episode also features a special annoucement you don't want to miss! 

Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, diversity, leaders, creative, culture, feel, race, workplace, black, gap, conversation, create, person, self doubt, racism, team, white, community, moment, plywood

SPEAKERS

Bethaney Wilkinson, Blake Howard

Bethaney Wilkinson  00:00

Hey, hey, Bethaney from The Diversity Gap podcast here. And for this bonus episode, I'm super excited to share with you a conversation I had with Blake Howard of The Creative ising podcast, he actually interviewed me. And this episode is a rerelease of that conversation, we talked about diversity, organizational culture, creativity, the creative industry, it was a super fun conversation, and I'm excited for you to check it out. But before you listen, I also want to extend to you a very personal invitation to an event that I'm hosting in Atlanta, Georgia on March 6 - Friday, March 6. The event is called The Diversity Gap: A New Kind of Leader. And so we are diving into what does it look like to lead in a way that actually creates a culture where people on your team can thrive and they can be themselves? And what are some of the skills that you need in order to do that? Well, so for the next couple of days, you can actually get launch week pricing for this event. It's $129 for individuals, $199 for pairs, and you can learn more and register at www.thediversitygap.com. That's all I've got. Check it out. Bye.

Blake Howard  01:31

All right. Well, Bethaney, thanks so much for being here. Appreciate it. Why don't we start with getting a little bit more of your backstory in what led up to you sort of diving into this topic of diversity and inclusion? And even eventually the diversity gap?

Bethaney Wilkinson  01:46

Yeah, great question. Gosh, and it's so funny in some ways. I've been asking questions about race and diversity, like my whole life. And so I grew up in this pretty small segregated town. And by that, I mean, like, black people lived on one side of town, my people mostly lived on the other side of town. We will go to football games on Friday nights, huge football game culture, I was in marching band, so love the football games. But even there, like black people mostly sat on one side of the stadium, like people saw on the other side of the stadium. I'm just in like my peer relationships, I was trapped into this one academic program when I was in like second grade. And so I was the only black person in that program until I got to maybe 11th grade. And so all of my closest friends were of a different race or ethnicity than me. And then that created like this weird sense of distance from the other black students. And so I just was like, trying to figure out what's going on as it relates to race even as a little kid. And so when I was towards the end of high school, I think I was 15 or 16. I read two books - game changer I read. Why are all the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria by Dr. Beverly Tatum highly recommend it. And then I also read Makes Me Want to Holler by Nathan McCall. And it was a memoir of a black man growing up in Maryland in the 70s, and 80s. And those two books were the first things I've ever read that kind of gave me language for my experience. And then I went into college and began studying race and more like, I don't know, construct a way I guess. And then I graduated from college and started working and realize that racism still exists, like in adult land. Yeah. And so everything from being a kid to like, then joining the working world have kind of it's all fed into the creation of The Diversity Gap project.

Blake Howard  03:32

Yeah. Was there a moment specifically that you realized I want to take this topic on, you know, like, I get with, with your upbringing and your context that it was always present. But was there a specific moment where you're like, I'm gonna choose this path, and I'm going to choose this difficult conversation to take on.

Bethaney Wilkinson  03:52

Honestly, I feel like I've spent a lot of time trying to unchoose it, if I'm honest. And here's what I mean by that. So I've been thinking a lot about the word vocation, it's like, in my own spiritual and religious background, it's an important word. And the root of vocation is voc Caray, which is connected to the word, the same root word for voice. And it's this idea that the thing that you're meant to do is actually a calling that you hear. It's not something that you actively choose and pursue. And so when I think about my work around race and diversity and equity, it's both parts, like this thing that I feel like is always calling me and inviting me in, but I kind of can't stop. I want to, and then it's also something that I decide to do. And so there was no one moment. Honestly, when I think about it, I was like, I don't know if I want to do that. That's kind of scary. This is a big topic. But over time, I was like, I feel I do feel like this question. This problem is calling me honestly. And I kept being in communities where people were listening to me and then changing their actions. So there is like, I don't know, like, well, whether I want to do it or not, I'm doing something and it's working. So let me just keep keep going.

Blake Howard  04:58

Yeah, little passion. and also a little wind in your sails. Yes, yeah, yeah. Oh, that. So I did a little research and preparation for this because I was interested in the either lack of diversity or lack of inclusion in the creative workspace or the creative community, which anecdotally feels true. But I wanted to know, are there any statistics out there, and there was a design census, produced in 2017, by AIGA, and Google, and some of the statistics were really interesting 60% of those that they surveyed, were Caucasian, or white. And so the next largest demographic was Asian around 10%. And then African Americans were only 3.4%, who took the survey. So those statistics are pretty compelling. And not to mention the lack of diversity with leadership from a gender perspective, there's very few women leaders, as creative directors, or art directors or whatnot, in creative agencies or in house departments often, so I'm curious, why do you think that is? 

Bethaney Wilkinson  05:59

Yeah, um, so I'm not an expert on these things. But my hunch is, especially as it relates to the racial and ethnic breakdowns, I mean, big picture, I want to call it racism, which might be like alarming, I don't know how familiar your, the listeners are with racism as lots of different forms. There's like, internalized racism, there's interpersonal racism that shows up in relationships. There's institutional racism that exists like in an institution of Business, School, whatever, then there's like structural barriers. And so when I say racism, I don't mean like the intentionally negative impulse of one person, I mean, that there are structural barriers that keep people from certain demographics from having access to certain kinds of opportunities. And so I was talking to someone last week, who's an architect about just how expensive it is to become an architect and how long it takes and and if you're a person who doesn't make a lot of money, who doesn't come from a family with a lot of money, you very well may not be able to afford the school afford the training afford to fly to a place that you need to go to have the interview that will get you the job to do the next thing. And so I think some of those structural barriers that exclude people based on race or or class are probably feed into some of the statistics that you just named.

Blake Howard  07:19

That makes so much sense. And even the, the access to critical things in the graphic design world specifically is when I'm thinking of, like a computer. Yeah, you need typically an apple or some sort of a higher end computer to learn the tools that you need to do graphic design, and how can you learn them if you don't have that? That actual tool?

Bethaney Wilkinson  07:40

Absolutely. And then I do find too, as I know that there are a lot of people who are doing work at the intersection of like device design and diversity, like wanting to see the shift in the industry. And another gap I find is that, in terms of people who are like making decisions about who to hire, and who not to hire, we have so much we have so many assumptions about who people are and what they can do and whether or not they'll be a good cultural fit for our team. All of those things come into play as it relates to diversity and identity. So sometimes, if you've created a culture that doesn't value what someone from different racial or ethnic background might bring to the table, or that doesn't even have like the lens to interpret that as a value add, you end up missing out on opportunities to diversify your team or your company. And, and it just takes a lot of work to be able to do that well.

Blake Howard  08:30

Yeah. And a lot of a lot of creative workplaces can acknowledge the value of diversity. You know, we want diverse perspectives. We want different worldviews we want different thinking there's the acknowledgement of of that value. But it can feel like lip service, or efforts can kind of fall flat and not feel like they're authentic and true. What are some good signposts of there's a true belief and a true value of diversity in a workplace like what are some of the tangible symbols, you see? And you say, Oh, wow, yeah, that is true. They do value diversity?

Bethaney Wilkinson  09:02

Yeah, I think there are two things that have been evident to me and a part of my project with the diversity gap is to go find more of these signposts, but two that are evident. One is that the people who are creating the culture of the team have personal lives that reflect the culture they want to see in their company, or business or organization. So if you're wanting to see more gender diversity, or more racial and ethnic diversity, like what does your normal social circle look like? Where your kids go to school? Like, because those are that's where you that's where your your worldview is being formed. It's not all happening within the workplace between nine to five like it's, it's the rest of your life. Yeah. And that's informing your ability to think about people and culture differently. And so when I interact with leaders who are like are pursuing like a diverse personal life, like that's a great sign, you're moving in the right direction. And the other thing that I've seen is teams that talk about diversity and about identity all the time and And, and it's not relegated to like the one off training or workshop or consultant that dropped by for six months like, No, this is an ongoing, everyday conversation where we are all learning about who we are and what our identity means. And we're learning how to do this together, and we're fumbling through it. And we're saying, We're sorry. And we're celebrating things that go well, and so I feel like that's another big part of it, like being able to maintain an ongoing, intentional conversation is a really big part of progress.

Blake Howard  10:31

Yeah, that's good. It is difficult to know sometimes of what to do. I mean, you can open up the platform, or you can have the conversations, but tangible actions can be difficult beyond just the acknowledgement of the problem, or the issue or, you know, it's really difficult sometimes to just figure out how to how to even move forward. Especially for you know, there's there's really different sides of this conversation, I feel like there, there are those that have been victim to different forms of barriers or feel isolated or left out, because they are a minority, or they're different. Yep. And then there are those that are very blind to the issue. They don't even recognize it. They're, you know, for various reasons, whether they're just indifferent, they don't have empathy towards what it feels like to feel left out and excluded. Or they have shame or, you know, they they acknowledge that it's a problem, but they kind of feel guilty that they're white, you know. So I'm curious to talk about both of those groups and to talk to both of those those groups. Yeah. For those that feel victim to the barriers that exist in the creative workplace, what would you say to encourage them?

Bethaney Wilkinson  11:50

Gosh, that's a really wonderful question. I would say, to do what you can to cultivate confidence. And that might seem counterintuitive, but what I found in my own story, and in the stories of other creatives who come from minority who are underrepresented minorities in their workspaces, one of the challenges with being a minority in a majority culture space is that your instincts aren't always trusted, or respected or hurt or validated. And I think for creative people that can manifest that can turn into a lot of self doubt. And, and then it's what's interesting about self doubt is that it shows up in two ways. For most people, either you overcompensate, which doesn't always help or you like pull way, way back, and you start to play small. And so I know in my own journey, and again, in the journeys of other creatives of color than I know, it's been really important to find spaces to practice and validate and affirm our voice, our instincts, our perceptions, to hone our gifts, and to even kind of get clarity on what our unique value add is if we are in a majority culture space, and then after cultivating that confidence, doing what you can to communicate that value to the people you're working with, which isn't always easy. The thing, this whole processes that I just described is like ongoing constantly. Yeah, there's one day where you're like, I was awesome today, like, I showed up, and I did the best I could. And then there are other days where you're like, oh, man, I played really small. And that's unfortunate. Yeah, um, but yeah, it's an ongoing process. And to be mindful of how self doubt is showing up in your work is really important.

Blake Howard  13:34

Yeah, that's, I think that's so true for creatives of all types, because I can resonate, that resonate with that as a privileged white man. Because Self confidence is really key to fighting for something that you've created, that you believe is really smart, it's really key to speaking up in meetings. So if you let that self doubt, or you start to believe, a certain story about yourself, and so you rein it back in, regardless of your skin color, it's gonna hurt your career. And there is a friend of mine that I was speaking with, who is a black man in the creative field. And he said that when he would disagree with work, he would be very passionate, you know, and it would have a loud opinion. Mm hmm. And he realized that people were almost becoming scared of him, where that was really just an expression of kind of who he is, and maybe what he was used to how he was used to even communicating with his family. And, but but the white people around him would be scared and that that sort of feedback started to get to him. And he realized that he had to sort of tailor it but it was really difficult for him because he felt like he wasn't being true to himself. He felt awkward then didn't know how to do it. And so that was an example of where based on feedback and based on maybe what he was more used to, the delivery of his communication was not being received well, and then he started to have self doubt and almost questioned his own abilities?

Bethaney Wilkinson  15:00

Yeah, well, it makes me think to like, as leaders of people who are creating cultures in those spaces, or as maybe as a white leader, like, I would want to know, what could that person's boss or supervisor do to help the group understand that the way this black man is communicating is it's a, it's a cultural thing. It's not wrong. It's not bad. It's not something to be afraid of. It's I mean, as a black woman who grew up in the southern black family, like that's really similar to my experience. And so it's like, how can how can we create workplace cultures that don't say, hey, black man Calm down, but say, Hey, can you be you? And we're actually going to adjust because we value you and what you bring in this passion is actually a gift to our team. Yeah. And so it's a little bit of work on both sides. 

Blake Howard  15:44

Yeah. And that reminds me a little bit of the challenges that some female leaders have also that I've heard about over the years, where, hey, I'm not really that loud, with my voice, my literal volume of my voice, can I still lead? Wow, people know that I'm leading the work, but then they quickly look to the man in the room, when they're asking questions, or when they want a decision, you know, I naturally get passed over. How do I overcome that? So there's a lot of barriers for the female people listening or female gender as well, because there's just natural things that are built into like a quote unquote, leader, that doesn't fit necessarily some women's abilities. I mean, there's this is certainly broad strokes. I know some women who are very loud, put their voice like yes, but that idea of like, you know, some women just aren't that loud. And so can they still lead with that?

Bethaney Wilkinson  16:37

Right. Yeah. And then how do we when we say that we want a diverse culture or a diverse workplace? Like, are we expecting everyone to conform to that historical, traditional, quote, unquote, traditional picture of leadership around communication norms? Like, that's a big question we have to grapple with, because everyone doesn't communicate the same way. 

Blake Howard  16:56

When you think about privileged people. And I would put myself in that category. You know, and I've been on this interesting journey of learning more about this, you know, there's like this awareness journey, where I would, I would originally have said, I'm not privileged. I'm from a middle class family, I grew up on a corn farm, like very rural, you know, like, we didn't have fancy things. But then I start to reflect and think, Okay, well, I went to a private high school. And oh, I didn't pay for college. And I moved to Atlanta, and I had personal connections from family friends. And you know, there's just, you know, in this and this and that, and you realize, like, oh, wow, I am really privileged. So for people that maybe either are aware of, of their level of privilege, or maybe they're totally naive to it, and they're blind to it. What can they do to contribute to this conversation? What can they do in their workplaces? What can they do to even start thinking about this the right way?

Bethaney Wilkinson  17:53

Yeah. So this makes me think of a quote from a guy named Abraham Heschel who is no longer alive. But he says, A few are guilty, but all are responsible. And I think of that condition, because I feel like a lot of times when it comes to people who are privileged, or white people, depending on you know, what the conversation is, it can be this sense of why didn't create that I wasn't there when this bad thing happened, or whatever it might be. But it's like, yeah, you weren't there. But can you take some level of responsibility for it in the places where you have influence? Can you adjust so that you can make space for someone else to be heard? Yeah, it will feel it's an act of generosity, I suppose. To make that choice. Even like as simple. As I was preparing for this conversation, I was thinking of how like in the workplace, sometimes someone else leaves a coffee cup in the sink, and you're like, Well, I'm here, I see that it's there. And I need to put it in the dishwasher. And it's like, yeah, you didn't make the mess. But can you help clean it up? It's that kind of thing. And so I would say, to grapple with the extent to which you are personally willing to take responsibility for the problem. And maybe not in the whole world, but at least in your own world, maybe in your own neighborhood, in your own office with your own team, and to start there. And then secondly, I would say that no one can do the work for you. I think one of the challenges that a lot of organizations face as they go on an awareness journey and wake up to this is that they kind of put the burden of doing this work on like, the one black person in the room or, or on the people of color to be the educators and it's like, actually, no, there are so many resources out there for you as a person of privilege to go learn on your own actually, and not that you shouldn't ever learn across cultures and across races. I think that's a big part of it. But I feel like in order to do it, well, you have to be on your own journey that you've taken responsibility for your own books or reading your own podcast you're finding, having finding a leadership coach who is from a different or an executive coaches from a different racial or ethnic background than you who can speak into your life so that you're not depending on a subordinate on your team to lead you in that way. Those are just little tips that I think privileged people or white leaders can, can work with.

Blake Howard  20:10

Yeah, I love that. And I think another part that's important is to not be defensive. Because because I felt that, you know, with with Creative Mornings in Atlanta, after one event, someone came up to me this was several years ago, and they said, you know, very kindly, I don't see a lot of black people presenting at these events. What's up with that? And I remember feeling very defensive in the moment, like, like it because it felt like an attack on my, you know, like racist views, potentially. So I felt very defensive as someone who cares about all people and did not want to be put in any sort of category like that. But but in the moment, that was a really, really precious gift. Like if that lady wouldn't have had the courage to come and tell me that. I don't know if I would have booked speakers the way that I do now. And ever since that moment, I was really intentional with saying, Hey, we're gonna say no to certain speakers, because sometimes it's hard to find entertaining lecturers on a certain theme or topic in Atlanta that you have a connection to that you can book within a few months with no dollars, you know, it can be hard to find speakers. And so I could chalk that up easily, like, well, it's just, you know, I just don't know, many people of color to present, sorry. Or I can say, alright, who do I know, that is connected in different networks and groups that I that I don't know? How can I be very intentional with the 11 speakers that I book every year and say, hey, at least 50% are going to be a minority, like, maybe we can set a goal like that, you know, so yes, sometimes the feedback that you can get in the moment is the best gift you can get. But if you're defensive and rejected, it'll be lost.

Bethaney Wilkinson  21:47

Absolutely. Yeah. And I feel like too, similar to what you just described, almost like expecting, because white people in our culture haven't been conditioned to grapple with race, for the most part. Like I've been thinking about it since I was seven, like I described in the beginning of our conversation. A lot of people, white people don't have that experience. I would say that embrace it as a part of the process. Like if you feel defensive, that's normal. You're okay. Just don't let it stop you. Yeah, like, keep leaning into it. Keep following that. And I love how in the example you just gave, you're like, Okay, what, I maybe can't fix everything tomorrow. But what can I do? And I think that's such a powerful, and empowering question like, what, what can I influence? What can I change? Yeah, that's really great. Yeah.

Blake Howard  22:29

And I think relationships are really important as well, for exposure of perspective. And so like, in that instance, there's a friend of mine, Terence Lester, who I connect with and had coffee with and just said, Tell me more about, like, the way that that I'm running this event series and the speakers that I've had, and he gave me really good feedback and perspective into his community that I didn't know about. And so then I could have more empathy, with with that perspective. And so a lot of times it's knowing people and it's having a relationship like trusting Terence, yes, that he's not going to attack me that he is an amazing human being that I can get a lot of value out of our relationship. And so there's a lot of lessons to be learned when you just know someone and you can connect and understand them and, and build a relationship. Absolutely. Yeah. I love the quote by Verna Myers that says diversity is being invited to the party. And inclusion is being asked to dance. What do you think leaders can do to make an impact when it comes to inclusion in the workplace? Because I feel like there's a nuance in those topics. You know, like, yes, we want to be diverse. Yes, we want to have diverse hiring practices, or we want to make sure our team is diverse. That's sort of like level one. Inclusion feels like a different level, almost. Yeah. What do you think leaders can do to be more inclusive?

Bethaney Wilkinson  23:50

Yeah, well, it's kind of goes back to what we were talking about with them, the black man who gets really passionate in meetings. And a leader in that instance, if they wanted to be inclusive, they would challenge the group to welcome in the distinctives of that black leader or that black man. It's, it's pretty much I like to think of it as like, what are you willing to do to make sure that someone who is culturally different than the norm in this institution feels welcome and like, what are you willing to change? There's this I forget the name of the person who came up with this analogy, but he talks about how there's imagine that there's a workspace that was created and designed for elephants, and like, the width of the doors for an elephant, like the food that's in the backyard is for elephants, like everything is built so that an elephant can thrive and be happy in this environment. And then they decided they want to diversify their team so they hire a giraffe, and then literally realize the giraffe can't get through the door because of how the giraffe is built and what the giraffe wants to eat is not anywhere around because no one considered that maybe giraffes and elephants eat different things. Communication like I love an example because it's kind of silly, but it's it's also true. Like, if you take a person of color who's integrating into a majority culture context, are we saying, hey become like everyone else? Or are we saying we actually rebuilt the walls and the doors and paid more to have a different kind of food here? Because we want you to know that you're welcome, even if there's only one of you. So that's how I think about inclusion. It's like, what are we willing to change? What are we willing to sacrifice? What are we willing to pay for? In order to make sure that leaders who don't fit the cultural norm of this place are not only welcome, but get to profoundly shape and influence what's happening in the room? 

Blake Howard  25:39

Yeah. And in there, there's hard work required to do that to rebuild the walls to change the food program, all of that cost, money dies, have you? Have you found success and trying to either convince business leaders or others have the almost like the, you know, ROI is such a transactional, cold term, but of the business case around it? You know,

Bethaney Wilkinson  26:03

I haven't tried, I think, truthfully, not in that way. I think as people I've seen, what I've seen happen more often is that, for whatever reason, either because it's in response to a crisis moment in the news or in response to feedback, people, organizations will start scrambling to try to solve the problem. And then the work stalls out, because there wasn't enough thought on the front end about how much change would be how much change would be required. And so that's what I've seen more often than not like business case or not like it's because there is a business case for it. Like you can Google this. There's tons of research that more ethnically diverse teams make more money, they perform better if they know how to leverage differences and not have the differences, stress them all out. Yeah. But yeah, I find that people don't know how costly it's going to be. And and just because of where I'm at, in my career, I haven't walked through the community long enough to see what happens over 20 years, I've only been able to see it in short spurts.

Blake Howard  27:01

Yeah. Well, in the there is an interesting point you made about reaction, you know, where, cuz you see this with businesses where they have open positions, and they need to hire. So all of a sudden recruiting and hiring is very important top of mind. And then they fill all of those roles, and the team moves on. And there's maybe no giant gap from a resourcing perspective. And so hiring is no longer that that big of a deal. Exactly. But if you if you're not really intentional about a recruiting or hiring plan, it can be really difficult when the need arises again, and I would imagine that that's, that's similar. I do feel like there's an interesting part of, regardless of views of a capitalistic structure or system or not, there is an interesting thing that happens in our, you know, economic system in the United States, where if if internal employees recognize we need to be more diverse, and clients have an agency or clients of a business, customers of a business that you need to be more diverse, that will put pressure on leaders to start to figure it out?

Bethaney Wilkinson  28:09

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I an organization that I've worked with, they actually they lost a client, because the materials, the program didn't reflect the culture that that other client was trying to create. And it's like, we want to see something that has more people of color, and it has more women in it in a way that's real and not just about marketing. And so yeah, I totally, I totally agree. 

Blake Howard  28:33

Yeah, that's great. I think there is an interesting nuance to it, because some of that, either the point I made or just that topic in general, can feel fake, you know? And I think it's, it's like it's not it can't be marketing. Okay, that well, everyone wants this new toothpaste with the new flavor crystals. So we have to put flavor featuring flavor crystals on the box, and it's the same old toothpaste, it's got to be authentically different at its core, or just that I think people can pick up on the lip service. 

Bethaney Wilkinson  29:07

Oh, yeah, they definitely can.

Blake Howard  29:10

Alright, so I've been defining courage as the ability to reject in difference specifically in those that you work with, and the work that you create. So I'm curious for you, in what you're trying to accomplish with The Diversity Gap and how you're trying to educate institutions around social inequality and racial reconciliation. What does indifference look like to you?

Bethaney Wilkinson  29:35

Oh, wow. Indifference. Indifference, two things come to mind. The first is so you've maybe heard people say, especially when it relates to race that one of the biggest privileges that white people experience in conversations on race is that they can opt out any Time, because it's not like for most white people, like it's not life or death, and you can move through the world and no one's treating you fun, funny or differently because of your race, for the most part, you can choose to live your life and not ever think about this. And that's like, the biggest white privilege. And so when I think of institutions, I think there's also this collective privilege that people sometimes embrace. Which, which isn't difference to me, I think it's like, well, we're actually being really successful at what we're doing. So why change it, if it's gonna be this uncomfortable, and this heart and take this many resources to diversify our team than why try especially for being successful at what we've always done. And so I think that collective privilege, and that collected that, like, history of success is one way that in different shows up. And then on the other hand, and I think this is not just for white leaders, this is for people from all backgrounds, I think there can be just a hopelessness, like a sense that this can't get better. So why try? I think that's another way that indifference shows up in work around race and equity and diversity, it's like, if this isn't going to change, then why should I put any energy towards it, let me just kind of suppress, ignore, distract from the problem, because we can't actually solve it.

Blake Howard  31:25

The opt out point you made is huge. Because I can opt into a conversation like this, I can get a little sweaty, I can make sure I say the right things. But then I can opt out. Like, it doesn't immediately affect me, like you said, I can go home and live my life, I can design it how I want our little white family can be happy. But for someone that's a minority or a person of color, they don't opt out. I mean, they're they're in it regardless, so they see the barriers constant. I've never thought about the frequency of that, of those. And sometimes I can think of barriers as one offs even, maybe that's out of whiteness, I see like, you know, there's one tilde Oh, there, there's a hill to climb a singular hill to climb, and then I'll climb it and get over it. And then look for the next hill. I don't think about this giant forest of trees constantly in my face that I'm having to dodge. So I love that point. I think that is that is really, really incredible.

Bethaney Wilkinson  32:24

Yeah, and I mean, I think too, about just in my own life and my own workplace that I go into everyday, I couldn't turn off if I wanted to, like I'm constantly reading who's in the room? What are the racial backgrounds? What are the dynamics that are playing out? In every meeting that we're having, especially if it's contentious, I'm like, Okay, how is race happening, what our thing is going on. And like, man, it'd be so nice to just show up and like, do my job and not like have to be processing race and power all the time. Again, now, it was The Diversity Gap. It is a part of my job. So that's cool. Yeah. But before that, it was, I don't know, it's just this ongoing piece of emotional work and labor every time I opt in to being on my on my majority white team. 

Blake Howard  33:06

Hmm, yeah. What do you feel like would be your halftime speech? To inspire the creative community? Like if you had a moment to say something that would be really profound to change or shape the direction of folks in the creative community creative professionals? What do you think that halftime speech would be?

Bethaney Wilkinson  33:26

I would say the beginnings of it would be that we, as we're creating new things, and as we're shaping culture and leading people, we get to decide what the cultures of the future are going to be by our action or our inaction, we are literally creating tomorrow. And that's beautiful and terrifying. But we have an opportunity to do things differently than they've ever been done before. And as it relates to race and racism and equity, diversity. There's never been a time like this where we can build cultures, organizational cultures, or ones in our neighborhoods. I don't know where all people can thrive and bring their best to the table and offer what they have to the world. And so we have leaders recreating the cultures of the future. So how are we doing that? Are we helping? Are we hurting? Are we leading? Are we taking it easy? What might it look like for each of us to own our responsibility and influence to create the cultures we say that we want?

Blake Howard  34:31

That's so good, and even having a designer perspective, because to me, design is just problem solving? Yeah. So there's a set of criteria. There's, there's a challenge in your face, there's restraints. So how do we creatively create or design something that will go beyond that problem and solve that problem? And what you just said makes me think it's it really is a design problem, because the choices that we take today, the action or the inaction will create something and it will design a future you So let's hopefully shape a future that will be proud of. Absolutely. So maybe tell people listening, how they can get more involved with a diversity gap or what they could do next, if they feel stirred by this conversation, what else could they do?

Bethaney Wilkinson  35:15

Yeah, great question, I would say. So for The Diversity Gap, you can go to www.thediversitygap.com. It's a project that I launched in January of this year, in partnership with Plywood People, which is a nonprofit that I love and work for, we support social impact entrepreneurs. And so check out thediversitygap.com. And you can read more about the project, I'll be launching a podcast in August, so I'm not sure when this episode comes out. But August 1, you'll be able to start listening to The Diversity Gap podcast. And then I'm also launching a Patreon community so people can get access to exclusive content and just be more involved in like the learning community part of this work over the course of the next few months. So that's two ways to get involved with the diversity gap. Um, I would say if you're listening to this, and you're like, What do I do next? I would try the sound so silly, but I would literally Google like racial equity trainings, my city or anti racism trainings in my city, I would go find some sort of racial justice educator, in your context. And wherever you are, and to try to learn from them. I think it's really important to do this work in community with people so maybe take a coworker with you or a friend. Some of my most transformative experiences have been going with friends from different mostly white friends in my case, because I just those are my relationships. So I'm doing a lot of work around this, but like me and a white friend going to a workshop together and processing and learning. I think it's so powerful. And so find the training and go the friend.  Thanks so much for listening. At the end of this episode, I want to take a quick moment to give a shout out and share some love with my Plywood People team. For those of you who don't know, I work for a nonprofit called Plywood People and Plywood leads a community of startups doing good. As a team we get to support nonprofit for profit and creative founders of social impact social good ventures, and the diversity gap is a project of Plywood People and I'm just super thankful to be able to make this happen in partnership with this great organization. If you're interested in learning more about Plywood, visit plywoodpeople.com Or check out Plywood people on Instagram. That's all. Bye. Thank you for listening to The Diversity Gap podcast. If you've been challenged or inspired by what you've heard, please rate and review the show. You can also subscribe to make sure you never miss an episode. If you have thoughts or questions, I'd love to hear from you connect with me at thediversitygap.com or on Instagram at The Diversity Gap. This episode was produced by Matt Olin for Soul Graffiti Productions.