What Lived Experiences Are We Missing on Our Team? w/ Noemí Jimenez

For today’s conversation, Bethaney kicks off season four with a conversation on race-conscious leadership. Afterwards, you get to learn from Noemí Jimenez. Noemí has corporate communications, strategy, branding, and market research experience across the non-profit, corporate and social impact sectors. She manages ESG issues across equity, inclusion and diversity in the workplace and representative communications across sectors. Based in Austin, Texas, Noemí works with executive teams to understand the strategic implications of inclusion and sustainability and develop approaches to drive business value.

Insight: Your lived experience is invaluable.

Action: Learn to articulate your lived experience through story.

Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, diversity, conversations, clients, racial justice, communities, companies, stakeholder engagement, noemi, thinking, identity, leadership, race, team, skin color, role, important, hear, organization, terms

SPEAKERS

Bethaney Wilkinson, Noemi Jimenez

Bethaney Wilkinson  00:00

Hi, this is Bethaney Wilkinson. Welcome to The Diversity Gap podcast, the home of race conscious leadership. Hey there friends, welcome to another episode of The Diversity Gap podcast. Not only are you welcome to another episode, but you're welcome to a new season. I can't believe this is season four, I was so sure that I was finished with podcasting after season three. But over time, I really missed it. I really missed having these conversations, I really missed being able to share these ideas with you. And and so we're back, we're back. Now there is a little bit of a new format here because I've undergone you know, personal transformations as a leader and facilitator. And I want those changes to be reflected in the work that we're doing. And so here on the podcast, you will hear from me for a little bit. And then I will share a conversation that I have with a guest and today's guest is Noemi Jimenez, so I can't wait to share that conversation with you. And then we're going to land the plane with a listener question. I'm really excited to have more conversations with you podcast listeners. And and I'm hoping that after you hear me answer today's listener question, you will take some time to hop on over to thediversitygap.com/podcast to submit a question of your own. And I guess with that, I will transition into sharing a little bit more about The Diversity Gap, the home of race conscious leadership. So what is race conscious leadership? Race conscious leadership is the ongoing practice of grappling with racial history, with racial identity, and with our visions for racial justice, history, identity and justice. Now, history is important because sometimes when leaders arrive at their organizational diversity, equity and inclusion work, many of them want to start with, you know, the hiring pipeline, how do we get more people of X backgrounds in the room. And while that is a meaningful and worthwhile endeavor, this is obviously called The Diversity Gap podcast I am for the work of representation. While that's a worthwhile endeavor, one of the gaps that often emerges is this wrestling, we have to do with history, because the truth is that groups aren't just underrepresented, right, they have been historically excluded, they have been intentionally marginalized. And so race conscious leadership is about taking the time to understand racial history to understand those social, political, historical barriers that have kept people out of certain rooms out of certain positions of power, that have kept people from accessing different sectors or industries. And so race conscious leaders grapple with history, because they know that the context we're living in right now is the byproduct of historical decisions that have been made. And so if you want to be serious about your race conscious leadership journey, grappling with racial history, in your context, in your industry, in your company, or organization is one of the first pillars of race conscious leadership work. The second pillar is racial identity. And this is all about understanding your social location as a human being. This is about unpacking. Who are you? And who were you taught to value? And what were the racial attitudes that made up the community or family of your origin, the work of race conscious leadership is to bring those stories, those narratives into an active awareness in your mind and leadership so that you're able to see how those attitudes, those behaviors as approaches are just in the room to see how they're a part of how you move and the decisions that you make. The hope is that with more awareness, you will be empowered to make different and perhaps better and more inclusive decisions. So we have racial history, we have racial identity. And then last but not least, we have visions for racial justice. Now, racial justice is a big topic. It's a big picture. And if you are a race conscious leader, your invitation is to ask yourself, What does racial justice mean in this context? What does it mean for us to make things right? In my context, maybe racial justice is about reparations. Maybe racial justice is about giving land back maybe racial justice is about pay equity. It will look different depending on the context you're in. Depending on the kind of organization you work for your position of leadership within that institution, maybe racial justice looks like changing the way you tell stories, and who tells the stories and what the stories are about. And so it really does vary. But as a race conscious leader, again, your invitation is to get really clear on what your vision for racial justice is. Now, a quick caveat there is that your vision for racial justice can't be your vision alone. It's a vision that you cultivate and build with other people. And so as you are thinking about racial justice, who can be dreaming about it with you, and who can be designing and mobilizing towards racially just actions in your leadership context. So these are the three pillars of race conscious leadership, we've got history, we've got identity, and we've got justice. If you're interested in learning more about race conscious leadership, then hop on over to www.thediversitygap.com/raceconsciousleadership, you can go to the website, read all about it. And in the coming weeks, we will be offering courses that help you lay a good foundation for race conscious leadership in your every day life. All right. All right. I hope that breakdown of race conscious leadership was helpful to you. And it felt important to do that, because this is the language I'll be using a lot as you move through these conversations. And, and I also hope that you feel a little bit more equipped and inspired to grapple with racial history, racial identity and racial justice in your own and your own leadership life. So I hope that was helpful to you. Now as we switch gears, I'm really thrilled to be sharing a conversation that I had with Noemi Jimenez here on the podcast. Noemi is one of the founders of QB consulting, and she is a brilliant, thoughtful, and effective race conscious leader. That's what I would call her brilliant, thoughtful, and incredibly effective in the work that she does. Noemi has corporate communications, strategy, branding, and market research experience across nonprofit, corporate and social impact sectors. She manages ESG issues across equity, inclusion, diversity in the workplace, as well as representative communications across sectors. And so she's had a lot of experience working in different types of organizations, and helping them to really close that gap between their intentions and their impact using market research, using data, and by leveraging an incredibly diverse team that she and her business partner Sam have built over the course of the past few years. And so again, Noemi is just brilliant. I really enjoyed this conversation. She shares such practical, applicable information with us. And I'm really thrilled for you to get a chance to learn from her to learn more about QB Consulting, and to find some tools, some really practical tools that you can put to work and your organizational life today. Awesome, okay. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today. Noemi, how are you?

Noemi Jimenez  08:12

Good. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here too.

Bethaney Wilkinson  08:16

Of course, of course. Well, I kick off my conversations in the first place every time and I would love to hear from you. When did you first know that you had a race or ethnic identity? And how did you know?

Noemi Jimenez  08:30

So I thought about this a little bit? And it's an interesting question, because I feel like throughout my life, I've had many moments where I've kind of been reminded of my race or you know, ethnic identity background, and I'm biracial. So I kind of have like different you know, I operate in different ways in different spaces, and only have recently kind of learned about, you know, that kind of practice of shifting identities depending on who's in the room. But when I do think back to like, the first time I really was aware of my skin color. So I like I said, I moved a lot growing up and when I was eight, I lived in New Orleans, and I was there when I was four I left when I was eight. So from four to eight, and I remember I had a best friend she was very very fair skin blond hair, and I have black hair and medium brown skin and I just remember people I never really thought of her skin color until I remember hearing people talk about how we were like, night and day we were like milk and chocolate we were like and like making just like as like, oh so cute. Look at these two, they're running around like as like, what I guess I'm you know, I guess so then that was like a remote. Then I became aware of my skin color and then my mom talks about me kind of being in the bath and like soaping myself up with like somebody like, you know, also by my skin and like why is there so much you know, it was So by wearing too many bubbles, and I, she said that I would say to her, like, I want to have white skin, and I don't I, I don't remember that very well. But I do remember this feeling of like, when people would say you're like, night and day, you're like, you know, those those references, I remember thinking like, Oh, but I want to have one pair and I want to have their skin and like, all the dolls I had where, you know, looked a certain way. So that's like the first time when I remember being aware of my skin color.

Bethaney Wilkinson  10:31

How would you say... thank you for sharing that story and those stories in general. I'm curious to hear, like, and looking back on that experience on those experiences and the clear. The hierarchy that's inherent in racial identities in general, like, how do you look back on the younger version of yourself? And what would you say to her if you had the chance?

Noemi Jimenez  10:54

Just, I mean, I know my parents kind of tried to do this, and like the dolls that they allowed us to have. And I think it was something that was so deeply, like, just steeped in the community that I lived in the school that I went to, and all those things, but I mean, I wish the messaging that's out there now, like, Brown is beautiful, dark is beautiful. Black is beautiful. Like, I wish that messaging had been more prominent in the world that I was in, because that's what I would tell myself now are like looking back. And that's what now that I now that I have a daughter is three and a half. And I have another one who's one, like, that's what I feel like she's much more exposed to that. And I'm much more like, open I guess, with that messaging and like talking about that more and like exploring that. And I'm, I think more not that my parents weren't, but I'm just more thoughtful about the friendships that I try to cultivate and like the spaces where I play it. And I'm like, much more aware of what her role models are, and all of those things. But yeah, I wish that had been more. And I don't think I maybe I didn't quite express that in a way that it could have been addressed by, you know, by my parents, but I wish there had been more conversations about race because like I said, there were moments throughout my life when I was aware. So when I moved I left New Orleans, I moved to Ecuador. And that was like a whole other kind of shift in identity because I, you know, my skin color is remained what it was, but there was a different I was in a different context different meaning. I was in a privileged situation, I went to private school, but then I was with a whole other kind of, like, the hierarchy was different in terms of like, who was the elite and who wasn't. And like I said, my family is like, inter raped by biracial, I'm biracial. identity was just, I'm trying to like there's, it's so layered that I am trying to like, you know, going into a private school where I was surrounded by people who are very privileged, and like my parents backgrounds within the more humble, I became aware of my skin color and my socioeconomic status in a different way. And so then I was also constantly trying to, to play a role or to occupy a space that I wasn't really a part of ever. And then when I came to, so I was always kind of trying to be someone I wasn't. And then when I moved to the US and came to college, all of a sudden, I was like, also on there, like I was an international student, but I did have a US passport. So then I wasn't really in either space. And I was homesick as very homesick. I was not I did not feel like I belonged even though I spoke the language. And I didn't think I would have that culture shock I did. Because I had been, you know, I essentially grew up in Ecuador. I mean, and so then I was like, again, I tried to join like the Latin student group on campus. But I, I wasn't coming from like, you know, a bad background that a lot of students were coming from I was in a very privileged situation in Ecuador. And there, there weren't many international students at the school that I was asked, I couldn't like find anyone who could fully relate to the situation that I was in. And so, my identity, I've been kind of rediscovering it. I would say that throughout my whole life, and, you know, depending on the situation that I'm in, so now, when I think about, again, my children, I'm just much more comfortable talking about these things and celebrating all the things that we are and my daughter is also I mean, my husband's Indian, so there's like another layer that and I find that to be so beautiful, and I'm so proud of like the mix that I am. I'm proud of the mix that my daughter now is she speaks already three languages like those things to me are and we constantly celebrate that to her out loud so that she knows that that is something to be very proud of.

Bethaney Wilkinson  14:57

That's so beautiful, so beautiful and it really speaks to The complexity of identity of intersectionality, the importance of representation, which are some things we're going to get into here in a second. But I want to hear a little bit more, you've spoken this a good bit, but what additional roles do your racial and ethnic identity play in the work you're doing today?

Noemi Jimenez  15:18

So I feel very fortunate that at this stage, and in the role that I have at cubies, as the, you know, co founder of a boutique consulting firm, where I get to work with large companies working on environmental social governance issues, I have the good fortune of being in a room that I don't know that I would have access to at this stage in my career, if I were in any other role. So I get to be in a room on a regular basis that's full of executives, board members, people who really have a position of power to make things happen for billion dollar companies. And most of the time, I am an only in the room, either, I'm the only woman, I'm the only younger person, I'm the only person of color, I'm the only like combination of those things. And I do truly feel a responsibility to we always do this, you know, in a polite way, but we're always kind of pushing the envelope. And we're always telling things the way they are, and so that I think I have a responsibility to continually do that. And my co founder, Sam and I were talking the other day about what we want to do this year, and kind of what our goals are for the year. And one of the things that came out was changing hearts and minds, which is like why we're in this and having that seat at the table as the only I feel so fortunate. And it's such a big responsibility that I take seriously being able to, you know, walk into a room full of C suite and let them know that it's unacceptable that they don't have a maternity policy. And I've seen in delivering that messaging people have this aha moment right in front of me. And that, to me, is something that I feel very fortunate to be able to do.

Bethaney Wilkinson  17:12

Yeah, so I want to lean into this a bit more talking about your work at qB. And I want to talk about representation, because not only is your team woman owned, but it's also incredibly diverse in like a very intersectional sense, at least from what I can tell by, you know, looking at your website. Yeah. And so from the outside looking in, it's clear that you've created a culture and established ways of working that can really support that much diversity. And so I want to hear a little bit of how you did it, why you design your team this way? And maybe if there are any nuggets for other organizations that are looking to increase their diversity?

Noemi Jimenez  17:52

Yeah, that's a good question. And that's certainly true, you can see it in just the photographs. But it's also something that we for sure, Sam and I look for, and it's, it's a consideration every time we have a new spot open. So when, when we decided we were going to start at Qb, we had been kind of looking around the space to see, you know, before we decided to start the company where we would want to go with we you know, where to move forward in our career to a different organization. And we really didn't see that representation that we wanted anywhere. And I was coming from a place I was working in another boutique consulting firm. And I had had an interaction with one of the co founders of the company where they wrote a piece on cultural appropriation, and it was just like, you know, if this piece came out now, actually, it wouldn't be totally ripped to shreds, but I saw it and it was just the piece ended with like a line that said, I just want to go wear my sombrero and piece that's like the tone of the piece. And so I was very upset by that piece. And I remember looking around and realizing that I was like the only brown person and like raising my hand and I that's when I that was one of the aha moments for me of like how important representation is because it's one of the least diverse companies that I've ever worked for. And so I don't think I had ever had to really worry about that. So that was part of the impetus of like wanting to build a diverse team on purpose. And when I was talking with my co founder Sam, we sort of agreed that at the leadership level there was very little diversity in the sustainability space which made no sense to us because we're trying to serve communities that look nothing like people trying to design the strategies to to serve those communities. And so why I really went into it thinking I want to build a company that I would want to work for if I'm me a few years ago looking for a job you know, where do I want to go I don't want I and now I'm much more I think after 2020 Everything is shifted for everybody. This is top of mind for every single client I work with is like how do we get our how do we improve our numbers but back then, you know, it was out there but I was feeling it. On a personal level, and so I went into it thinking like, I want to, I want to think about diversity on all levels, like, what does that word mean? That word has so many meanings. So when I talk to someone, I make it a point in the first couple conversations to really get a sense of, yeah, their background is important, but like a lot of things are teachable. What else does this person bring to the role? What else have they lived through? What else are they? What other ways? Can they look at a problem? Like what other what other angles? Can they see a problem from? How can we help our clients find holes in their strategy? You know, so many times you see in the in the news, like, there's this huge, like PR disaster, look at this ad campaign? And I'm, I constantly was thinking, like, how did nobody catch that? It's like, okay, well, nobody on the team, they're not bad people, they just, they just didn't know that that was an issue. And we still run into that with our clients. And so my thinking was, like, if we can build a team that's incredibly diverse, we can be such a huge asset to our clients. First of all, I know that people want to work with companies with teams that are diverse, or smarter, or we, you know, we, we work better together, we can poke prod, we can find problems that nobody has noticed yet, we can find more creative, like intersectional solutions. And that's the world that we live in, we're interconnected, we are like supply chains are global. I'm I as a person who, as you heard, like, has many layers to my identity, there's so many things that I mean, like one person cannot that's like the strength of building a diverse team. And so, you know, how do we do it? I don't know that I have like a clear cut answer. But I just think about, like, what is the when I look at our team holistically, when Sam and I are making a new hire, we look at it at that point in time. And we look at what we're missing. And you know, we can do that because we're a small company, and the two of us are in charge. But I look at it across the board. And I'm like, what, what expertise are we missing? What kind of life experience? Are we missing? What is what what are we missing from an academic perspective? What region of the country like what, what are the pieces that were missing? And then we evaluate our candidates based on based on that?

Bethaney Wilkinson  22:13

Yeah, I know, you said you don't tell them you know how you do it. But I think that posture of curiosity of what are we missing, like to always be asking, that is an incredible skill that leaders can, that are listening to this podcast can begin integrating. I also think about people who are listening to this who want to come work on a team like yours and feel like, oh, maybe I don't have the skills, but they have a story like you have a lived experience. And no one on the planet has your story. And so learning how to like articulate your story to how to articulate you know how your experience might be different or unique. I think that's such an invaluable direction for people.

Noemi Jimenez  22:52

Yes, and I think as you're saying that it's also making me think of like, as we're hiring people, we take into consideration their strengths, we take into consideration what they could bring to the role, what they could learn their attitude, we we look for humble, hungry and organized, like those are the qualities that we really value in people, we need someone who's like humble and ready to wear all the hats, like I, you know, we'll play all different kinds of roles on a team, there's no like, we don't have egos here hungry in terms of like, you know, we'll do whatever it takes to get the job done. And you know, within reason, and then you just organize in terms of like getting, you know, being able to collaborate with the team and getting things done and keeping things moving. And that can mean different things for different people. So when we think about what it person strengths are, Sam, and I have a right to have conversations on a regular basis, about both people in our talent pipeline, but also people on our current teams, when we're creating new teams or pulling people for different roles. We really think about an individual person's like, this person is good at this, they want to learn how to do this, how can we give them a little bit of an opportunity that makes them slightly uncomfortable, pushes them in a way where they're protected so that if they make a mistake, we can like pick them up. So constantly thinking about how to develop our team. And that I think comes from like, wanting to make sure that our team is happy. Because half the reason we did this was because we wanted a job where we could feel happy. And we want to provide that opportunity for other people, which also comes with like, flexible work and like all of those things. But also, truly and this is not like trying to make the business case four, but truly, that yields a better work product. That means our clients are happy if our consultants are happy, our clients are happy. I think we've gone into it from day one. really prioritizing the people that work on our team. And that's not to say that our client is not important, but I've said this from day one. No, I just say this on this publicly but honestly I say to our consultants like our client is not God. We are all Working together, we're partnering, where equals we're working together, you know, yes, they're bringing us on to do something, but we're bringing value to their team. And I don't think any of our clients would take offense in that, because we do what we can to, you know, deliver the best possible work product. And I think that's also why we've been successful over the last couple years is like, all of our new business is from referrals, all of our clients are talking to each other, we have not had to do any business development over the last, I would say almost two years, because our clients are so happy that they're referring us which is a, it's like the best, you know, compliment we could ever get. And I think that's because we make sure we take care of our clients. Because first, our consultants are taking care of and we make sure that we're investing in them so that they feel challenged, they feel happy, they feel like they can leave early to pick up their children like I do not I always say to my aside from the client has not died. I also say to everybody knew who joins, life comes first work comes second, like we are not saving lives. We're not doctor, you know, like aside from that, life comes first. And I do think that's more the narrative now after or through the pandemic. But that's how we've been from day one. It's like I did this because I wanted to be able to spend time with my kids. I did this because I wanted to be able to leave for a doctor's appointment. And no one's like, you know, wondering why I'm not at my desk. So I want that for everybody who works for us as well.

Bethaney Wilkinson  26:24

Oh, so good. I could keep asking you questions about that. But I'm going to switch gears because I really want to talk to you about climate resilience. And so this might seem like it's out of left field on a podcast about organizational culture and diversity. But it is one of my favorite things about your work. And so I would love for you to talk to the people about what climate resilience is, and how climate resilience intersects, I guess, with other aspects of our professional experiences, namely diversity and inclusion, like can you break it down? Like how do all these things work together? And why climate resilience?

Noemi Jimenez  27:00

Yeah. So when you think about climate resilience, so in thinking about, like, being ready to weather, no pun intended, the challenges of climate change. And if you think about it, there are many ways to think about it. But one kind of train of thought is like, what that means for global supply chains now that the world is so interconnected. And I think we saw a little bit of that, or we're seeing a little bit of that with COVID, and like, disrupted supply chains, across the world. And even like the pandemics and people not being able to perform, if you think about the effects that climate change will have, there are, again, are many ways to think of it depending on your role at a company, but you think about, you know, if there's a fire and people lose their home, that is also their office, they're not going to be able to continue working. So you think about it from a business perspective, like everybody has challenges as they're working from home. There are there challenges that can be avoided, and there are, you know, things that can be put in place so that people can can continue working or not, or take the space of time that they need to kind of deal with their life falling apart as a result. And that part of that is the extreme version. So like natural disasters and things that will literally make it, you know, disrupt somebody's life. And other parts of it are kind of like this more slow moving pieces that will kind of chip away. And so what so the project that we're doing now, or like a big telecommunications company is we're doing a big stakeholder engagement project, and it's engaging with communities that are disproportionately affected by climate change. And it's, we've taken a really interesting approach because we're we've hired people in each local market to do even though the engagement is virtual, it's like people who live in those communities or who are have a background who are like coming from those communities to lead the the facilitation and the conversations like we are have like this overarching plan. But we're very much like deferring to them in terms of like how to lead the engagement. We're having them do like an ethical engagement training, where we also have the World Institute on Disability doing training for them in terms of like inclusive, like, facilitation. And then we are the goal, we're doing it across five markets. The goal for this, for this engagement is to pull out insights in terms of like the key pain points that they face, after a natural disaster hits, or if they lose access to. So for example, in certain places, if you lose access to internet, you're not able to use your SNAP benefits because people have it on their phone. And so like there are things like that, that we're trying to uncover where this like global telecommunications provider could potentially play a role in supporting communities but not in the way that they think they could. It's basically like not Making assumptions in terms of how they could serve communities, but actually doing stakeholder engagement in a very robust way, where we're not they're not being extractive, but they're really trying to work on solutions with the community. And then decide where to invest resources the following year, so that they really are hitting on the things that people need versus like, the things that they think they can do and like treating it less as a philanthropy exercise, but more as like a community investment exercise.

Bethaney Wilkinson  30:31

Yeah, I think that examples, excellent. I often talk to organizations about how expressions of equity and justice might not fit squarely within a box that's like about race, if that makes sense. And it's like, as an organization, as a company, you can find ways to leverage your resources and to build your programs and your offerings in service to communities that are experiencing marginalization. And so you breaking that down, is I think it's super helpful. And I would imagine that for some listeners, like thinking about ways that they can be proactive about investing in different climate justice initiatives in their community just could be a good place to start. My next question is about assessment and data gathering. And from what I've gathered, this is a big part of your work and a big part of your process and working with companies and organizations. And so what are some steps that teams can take to begin assessing themselves? If they don't yet have the resources to invest in outside help?

Noemi Jimenez  31:35

Yeah, that's a good question. And so part of our like bread and butter products that are materiality assessments and materiality assessments for anyone who's not familiar, is really conducting a round of interviews, and then doing a little bit of depth research to identify the key that the most material issues for a company across environmental, social and governance issues. And it's all really tied to the business and to business drivers. And so we often do that ourselves, you know, we conduct those interviews, I think it's the best practice to outsource that. However, we do have clients who are wanting to do that in house first, and then maybe outsource it later. And so we have guided and we are guiding some companies on doing that themselves. I think one thing that I would definitely suggest is allowing a forum for people to respond anonymously. And that's why I think it's valuable. And we do it as a third party is we don't record our interviews, we, we don't share quotes, we don't like associate quotes to anybody so that people can really air any grievances. And I think, particularly now in the climate that we're in human capital issues, the AI issues are top of the matrix for, for most of our clients, regardless of the industry, it's just like, that's the climate that we're in post 2020. And I personally think it's great, and it's time and it's been time. But I think allowing people have to respond and knowing that they have anonymity is is important. And people are always blown away by the kinds of answers that they get, which I was talking about, including open ended responses. So that is one part. And then second one, I would say is just coming, going into the assessment, being ready to listen to difficult truths and and then demonstrate accountability and action. So I think part of what what happens is stakeholder engagement is sometimes people are tapped out. And they're tired of saying the same thing and feeling like it's falling on deaf ears. And this particular is particularly true for minorities. And so making sure that there's some sort of accountability and that people who are sharing their insights know from the outset, what is going to happen at the end of it. So setting expectations, if nothing is going to happen. Tell people that you know, this is not an HR initiative, this is just to gauge where we're going to focus moving forward. Or, as a result, we're going to set goals and targets, whatever it is make sure that's clear from the outset that people are not disappointed at the end. Because that's almost worse than not asking people what they think. And then just Yeah, I mean, going into it with humility and being ready to listen to things that might not be appealing. And I was talking about this earlier in the conversation, like, I get to go into a room and be that outside person with no skin in the game who's like, by the way, everybody hates working here. And that is I can do that. Because I don't work there. And I don't I'm not involved in the politics, and I'm coming in as a credible third party. But people who are conducting those assessments in house it's a very different dynamic. And so you know, making sure that there's a setting of expectations going into the process with senior leadership of we might hear things that we don't like we need to be prepared to hear that and to receive that and to be accountable and to take action. And I think setting those expectations early is important for success. Small Project.

Bethaney Wilkinson  35:02

Lovely, excellent. All it's so, so much easier said than done. Like internally, it's like, I've been that person where you're reading the survey data from like, within an organization and you're like, Oh, I know who said that, you know, because of how close people are. So those who are listening, I do encourage you to get a third party if you can. But okay, so we're getting close to landing the plane here. And I really want to know from you, what are the DEI conversations you are tired of having? And then what are the DEI conversations you want to be having?

Noemi Jimenez  35:39

Sure, so I'm tired of hearing that. There's not enough talent of a certain type, like I'm tired of, of hearing companies say that, Oh, because we're headquartered here, or because of the industry we're in or, you know, it's, there's just like a pipeline issue. Like, there's just not enough people. That's why we don't have diversity. That's BS. And I think we all know that there's like, really badass people of all different kinds of backgrounds that are ready to jump into roles where companies will actually give them the opportunity to grow. And you know, so I'm tired of having that conversation. I don't know why that is even like an issue anymore. And then the conversations I do want to have, are people more people going into conversations with more of like, willingness to learn and more humility and asking, like, what does it actually take to make human beings feel valued, because at the end of the day, pretty much I truly believe, it doesn't matter what people look like, or what people's backgrounds are their identities, like everybody wants the same things, everybody wants the same things, everybody wants opportunity to progress. Everybody wants to be paid fairly. Everybody wants flexible working hours. Everybody wants, you know, with with certain exceptions, and like being remote, etc, people have differ on that. But everybody wants pretty much the same things. And so really thinking about it from that perspective, and making sure that that those policies and practices and culture is supportive of everybody. And I was having a conversation the other day with World Institute on Disability, and they were talking about how like, I forget what term exactly they use, but this like, inclusion, first mentality, or this idea that like if you create spaces that include everybody, including people who are most often excluded, for example, people with living living with disabilities, that is better for everybody. And I truly believe that, like, if you create a space where, you know, just even small things, like if you have the ability to turn on closed captions, and like, I can't believe it's taken this long zoom just recently added that as a feature, but like, even those things, it's not just the people who you think this is designed for, that is a tool, it's helpful for everybody that makes everybody's life and job easier. And so coming into problems with that mentality of like, I'm not just investing resources for these five people on the team, who might be my identify that No, no, this is like something that's going to help everybody do their job better. And so that's what I wish people were more thinking of it as.

Bethaney Wilkinson  38:20

So as you step back and look at the organizations, you're working with the companies, the people you don't work with, but you just see them out here in the world, like, I'd love to hear what you're hoping to see unfold this year, as it relates to how organizations change and deepen into their values of justice and representation and climate resilience. And all of these things like what are you dreaming about?

Noemi Jimenez  38:47

I really want to see and it's something that I'm already seeing, which makes me so excited is just to see workers in the workforce take back their power. And I think we've forgotten that we are who powers the economy and capitalism and we we have so much power collectively and I'm I see hints of that with just like the demand that people are making for flexible work and for better compensation and better hours and mental health support and like the demands that that workers are, are making. And I do think we have a ways to go in terms of leadership, realizing the value of that and prioritizing their talent over everything else, because without their workers, they literally could not exist. And I think, you know, there are big companies that are definitely missing the mark that rely on hourly workers and are treating them very poorly. And I am hoping that there's going to be even more of a reckoning that we've had over the last couple years this year with the workforce just like taking back that power that I think, you know, we've almost like forgotten we have

Bethaney Wilkinson  40:00

Absolutely. Oh, so much wisdom. I'm so thankful for you and for your time. And for your work. Is there anything that you want to plug or anywhere people can keep up with you or the work you're doing at qB?

Noemi Jimenez  40:12

Sure, website is www.consultqb.com. We're also on LinkedIn. That's mostly where we publish things. But we do have a blog and we have a newsletter that goes out every month. We were named one of the best kind of stakeholder engagement and corporate responsibility newsletters a couple years ago. So we're proud of getting that out. And we'd love for people to follow us there. But yeah, I'm grateful for this conversation and for you, and all the work that you do. And I'm humbled to have been invited among so many other amazing guests. So thank you for having me. This has been really fun.

Bethaney Wilkinson  41:00

All right. So today's listener question is coming to us from Boston, and from a person named Elizabeth. So Elizabeth says, we're in the process of rolling out new job descriptions and openings, and wants to be sure that we're creating opportunities for as much diversity as possible. What recommendations or considerations do you have that will help us in this process? Great question, Elizabeth, I love this question. And congrats on growing your team. And on having the chance to invite new people to join you in your work. That's really important. And kudos to you. I would say a couple of things here, I think it's really important in job descriptions to make sure that you don't have relatively arbitrary requirements for that position. Lots of organizations or companies will have requires four year degree required requires master's degree requires 10 years experience, etc. And while I certainly think that's likely, helpful for some roles, I think that there are many roles where we can get creative about this, do you really need someone to have a four year degree? Or is it that you really need to see that someone has demonstrated the completion of a certain kind of project? Is it that you need someone to have 10 years experience in your specific industry? Or are there transferable skills you're hoping that they can bring to the bring to your organization, because you're assuming that if someone has those 10 years experience, and they'll have those skills, maybe it's people skills, maybe it's management skills, and maybe there are technical parts of the job that don't necessarily come through a four year degree program, but that might come through a coding boot camp, or some other sort of alternative school or training program, I think it's important to get really clear about exactly why your requirements are in place, what is the skill you're hoping they're going to bring? What is the perspective you're hoping that they will offer to you and to make sure that you are communicating that, hey, if you don't have this exact experience, we still want to hear from you. Because these are the skills that are most important to us. So that's something that I didn't encourage you to consider if you haven't already. I also really enjoy and appreciate the advice that Noemi gave us in this episode saying, hey, what do you need on your team? What are you missing? What lived experiences are you missing and to hire for that make that a priority. If you already have lots of people who all went to the same college, then maybe you need to hire someone who didn't go to the same kind of school that the most of your team went to, maybe it is about race or, or some other aspect of identity. Now, of course, you need to make sure that you're complying with whatever the discrimination or, or anti discrimination laws or rules are, in your context. In your industry. This is not legal advice. I don't give legal advice. I'm not a lawyer. And I don't want you to break the law out here. But I do want to encourage you to think about what is the lived experience we're missing, that if we had it on our team, then we would be able to do our work better. And we'd be able to add more value to our clients or stakeholders or whoever it is that you're serving through your work. And then last but not least, and I would be remiss not to share this, make sure that you're thinking about the culture you're creating. I'm guessing that because you're listening to this podcast because you went the extra mile to even submit a question. I'm guessing that you care a lot about your organizational culture. I just want to encourage you to make sure that you're creating a culture that can sustain, celebrate, and appreciate the kind of diversity that you want to bring in. And so you can do that through trainings and facilitations for your team, through shared experiences. You just really want to be making sure that you are creating a culture where people once they walk through that door, whether it's to be interviewed or whether it's to take the new job, that they know that they In a place where they can thrive or they can flourish, and so do what you can to go above and beyond once you get new kinds of people in the room to make sure that those people have a really positive experience and to make sure that they're able to bring their best to your organization. Thanks so much, Elizabeth for your question. I am really thankful that you listen to the diversity gap podcast. And I hope I hope this advice helps. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Diversity Gap podcast. I'm really glad you're here. If this episode has been helpful to you in a big way, in a small way, please take a few minutes to rate and review the show. This is how other people find The Diversity Gap and are able to get involved in our work. You can also learn more about The Diversity Gap and all of our offerings over at www.thediversitygap.com Thanks for being here.