Unlearning Racism + Raising Race-Conscious Kids w/ Staci Lynch

Episode Summary: In this episode of The Diversity Gap podcast, we get to learn from community leader Staci Lynch. Recorded at The Diversity Gap live event from April 2019, this conversation between Bethaney and Staci talk about pursuing equity in philanthropy, raising race-conscious kids, and the work of unlearning internalized racism.

Staci is a third generation Atlantan who is rooted in community. She is a leader with proven results in communications, relationship development, program design and implementation and coaching. With a passion for racial equity and diversity, Staci has spent the last decade and a half working to elevate the quality of education accessible to all children. 

Episode Notes: The Diversity Gap is a two-year exploration into the gap between good intentions and good impact. You can learn more at www.thediversitygap.com. You can also follow along on Instagram @thediversitygap or on Facebook!

Need help processing today’s podcast? Head over to www.theDiversityGap.com to find a conversation guide with definitions and questions for reflection.

Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

conversation, people, white, raising, question, race, diversity, children, gap, brown, husband, space, uncomfortable, work, racially conscious, world, met, good intentions, moment, literally

SPEAKERS

Bethaney Wilkinson, Staci Lynch

Bethaney Wilkinson  00:00

Welcome back to The Diversity Gap podcast. For today's conversation we get to listen in to the final interview from The Diversity Gap live event that happened earlier this year. And this interview we get to learn from my good friend and leader Staci Lynch. I will introduce her here because I'll introduce her as a part of the interview. As usual, I hope you enjoy. Welcome to The Diversity Gap podcast where we are exploring the gap between good intentions and good impact as it relates to diversity, equity and inclusion. My name is Bethaney Wilkinson and I am your host. Our last speaker tonight is going to be a little conversation between me and my friend Staci. Staci is a third generation native Atlantan. That's rare, those very special. Wait, that's the best. I think you're the only third generation native Atlantan. I know. We met back in 22nd 2017. When I first joined the team at Plywood, Jeff was like you got to meet Stacey to love each other. It's true. That's an accurate. And we met around this time because I was leading these conversations around race and my community. And I found out that she was doing the same thing, but you're doing it in your home. And I was like that's incredible if everyone did that, like took up enough, like took enough responsibility of their like their neighbors and their families to just be intentional about the conversation. And we live in a different world. And so I just really admired and respected that about Staci story. She has been working for 10 and a half years to elevate the quality of education that's accessible to all children. And so I'm just going to read some of these affiliations because I was reading through your bio and I was like these are amazing. Just want to share them. She for three and a half years worked as the philanthropic officer for the Community Foundation of Greater Atlanta. She's a German Marshall Memorial fellow. She serves on the board of directors for refine Ed Atlanta, and you're also on the advisory board for the Atlanta speech Academy. Vice president of the PTA at Charles Drew charter school and Eastlake. So obviously she's brilliant. She's very passionate about kids, children's families, neighborhoods, deeply rooted in community pilot presents Staci Lynch. So my first question for you, and I sent these to her ahead of time, she's had a little time think about them. My first question is, can you tell me and us a little bit about when you first became aware of your race and ethnicity? When did it first become a thing and a reality in your mind?

Staci Lynch  02:48

Well, first, I want to say thank you. It's really an honor. And I really don't do this a lot. I am definitely a person that stays behind the scenes. Most people that know me, I like to kind of push from behind I push hard, but I'd usually do it from behind. But when Bethaney asked me to do this, I was like, How can I not say yes, I mean, this woman is amazing. In fact, I first met her, I was like, God, if I had been that awesome when I was her age, like the world would be awesome. So I'm really honored to be here. I love the work that you're doing. And I just want to uplift you because you were so special to me. So this is fun out of my comfort zone. But I'm happy to be here. And I'll say, you know, I don't know if this ever happens to you guys. But you know, I have moments in my life. I call them shower moments when I went, I'll go home and like I should have said that, dammit, why not do that. So tonight, I've kind of pledge I'm gonna be really honest, and authentic. And I read through the questions, but I didn't spend a lot of time with them. Because I've wanted this to be just a natural conversation. Because this work is so rooted in who I am, as I know it is and you and so. So I just say that I'm going to try not to have any shower moment so that I don't go home and say I should have said that I want to be really authentic. So first race identity. I mean, I I think Pamela described it as transforming and being in places from the time I was, you know, four or five years old. I lived in two worlds, right? We call it code switching when you're black. So I grew up 30314 on Southwest Atlanta side and then I was bused in not bus, but driven to a school and 303 to seven and then my mom worked actually as an educator in Slater Elementary, which is one of the poorer schools 3315 Not far from, you know, carver in that cluster. And I literally just toggled between a very wealthy wealthy world where most people that I interacted with were czas and Mary who were the house cleaners and my friends to my street where the single mom next door and sometimes there's domestic violence to my mom's school where the kids were clearly you know, just underserved in Anyway, so I just raised and so conversations like, oh, you talk like a white girl. I mean, you know, constantly from very early on just a part of my life. And so it's I don't really know anything different, honestly, around this race and cultural toggling, I guess the best one?

Bethaney Wilkinson  05:17

Yeah. Would you say that that background has informed your work today? And if so, how, like thinking about your work that's really at the intersections of like philanthropy education? Can you just kind of flesh that out for us a bit more?

Staci Lynch  05:30

Yeah, I think with philanthropy, that's a tough one. I mean, there are a lot of conversations now around. I mean, I think we're starting finally, not really here in the south, but in other parts of the country to talk about, like, what does real philanthropy mean? And so it shows up with good intentions. But as we know, it's not doing it's not addressing the systemic issues in our country, and the problems. And so I think, for me, I left my job a year and a half ago, very liberating. Also, not easy sort of thing to do. But literally, my, I would cry going to work every day. And when you do that, like, that's huge. I couldn't do it anymore. And part of that struggle for me was recognizing that what we were saying we were trying to do with good intentions was really not doing anything. And so my philosophy on philanthropy is, until we're really honest about the systemic, and where we are, we're just mandating all these problems. And until we talk about this issue of race, and start to heal, and reconcile will never solve anything. I mean, I It's that clear in my mind. So that's why I've sort of re shifted and just personally spending a lot of time trying to have these conversations, more so at an individual level, because I can't move systems or I'm not in a place to move systems, but I feel like I can move people in my circle.

Bethaney Wilkinson  06:51

So powerful. Okay, so that's a perfect segue to my next question. Can you tell us a little bit more so when we met you were running these dinner time conversations in your home? I think with parents of other students in your kids, school and parents in your neighborhood. So What compelled you to do that? Was that scary to start? Did it go? Well? Was it a disaster? What was that story?

Staci Lynch  07:14

Yeah, story? No, that's good. In fact, I've had a conversation with my husband, when I first started, like really wrestling with this verbally where I would like, keep him up at night talking about this stuff. He says it was with, you know, a lot of the Black Lives Matter stuff like before, but I really think it was, I remember, the night that Trump was elected, I went to bed weeping, I literally went to bed weeping. And there's just something. I mean, I can't even describe the feeling. And I remember saying to him, how traumatized I felt knowing this, and he was like, Oh, just, you know, kind of, he was very dismissive and just kind of get over it. But um, so that literally was I was like, I have to do something, I have to do something. And I come from what I haven't shared of those generations, I come from family that always gave voice to the voiceless. I mean, it's just in me, my grandparents, were always talking about how we help those that can't be helped. So I was like, Okay, I got it. I don't know what to do. So I started a, I actively went to people, I know that I'd had conversations about race. And where it started with I knew, Pete, these are people that I knew had skin in the game, or at least would start the conversation with me. And so there are about 15 of us. One of them is here tonight supporting me. And she's wonderful back there. And we basically said, we are really committed to raising race, racially conscious children. And so we all have third graders at the time, they were all first graders. And we've been in enough shared space through preschool and other places where we knew each other, and half the group is black, half the glute is white. And then my husband and I split it up because my husband's white. And so there's this interesting dynamic, but we had all said, we were committed to raising racially conscious children. And so that started, what, two and a half years ago, and we've been meeting, it's very hard to get everybody's schedule together. It's hard to convene everybody. But we are still committed, we have a meeting coming up in May 10, we'll get together. We couldn't even find the time. So we're actually going to do it at screen on the green. while the kids are watching a movie, we're gonna all sit around talking about race, which will be very interesting. But nonetheless, we are really committed to this. And there are times I get frustrated with the group because I call it the opt in and opt out white people opt in and opt out of this conversation all the time. I don't have that option. You don't have that option. And so there is that urgency that just continues to just tug at me, like, you know, wake up, but also in that there's grace and understanding. And I'll say a word that I've really been thinking a lot about, and you mentioned Brene Brown was bring her up again, is empathy. You know, I've really been working with What does unconditional empathy mean? And that's been really helpful for me in getting through those times when I don't think that white people are moving fast enough. And I don't think that we're doing enough. It's trying to just kind of have that empathy for someone that's in a different space. So it's go, it's still going, it's not as fast as I want. But I think it's really important. And I would, you know, when you create these spaces, it just takes time. And you have to create trust, and you bring people along, and you know, all this sort of stuff. And so I would, I hope that maybe what we could do is get other folks to start circles, and do some of that. And there, there are a lot of places where people are having conversations. But what is unique about this is we have a really shared experience. And so we can talk about how segregated the birthday parties are, we can talk about, you know what happened on the playground, or we can talk about, you know, why the gifted program looks more white than brown, we can talk about these very specific things where race continues to show up for all of us. 

Bethaney Wilkinson  11:00

Yeah, that's, well, it's good. I think one of the so in talking about raising racially conscious children, I think that's something I'm having that conversation more and more with people. Yeah. Can you just can you tell us what that means, bro? I mean, you have to be like, yeah, an expert, but like, what does that mean to have a racially conscious child? And then I have a follow up question to that.

Staci Lynch  11:20

Yeah. So I really struggled with this. Right. So here's my struggle. It's like, I'm raising these multicultural biracial children. We, I will include my husband and that he is helping. Not a lot. So, yeah, so we are raising these children. And I will tell you, so my son is six, and my daughter is nine. And you know, there's sometimes Mommy, do we have to talk about this, you know, like, I, I probably laid on really thick. And I struggled with that, right? I mean, I would love not to have these conversations with them. So it's this tug between, like this navy and wanting them to be free of this, and race shouldn't matter. But it's so does, and I wish I didn't have to have the conversation. But then it becomes really a survival. Like, I feel a need. urgency that I think white people don't understand around safety around what they're going to navigate. And it's like this tug, it's this real tug of like, not having this conversation, so they don't have to understand it. But knowing that I can't not equip them to have these conversations, and you know, my children, look, they look brown for you know, all intensive purposes, they're not gonna pass or they will navigate life in some unknown space. So, so I say that it's so it's really hard, but it I mean, you know, so but as they're getting older, they are starting to point out things. And they notice we were watching the Masters a couple weeks ago, right? So Tiger Woods, go, go go brown man went in. And they're looking the TVs scanning. And I was like, What do you guys notice about it? And they're like, everybody's, like, you ever watched the masters? I mean, if you span the crowd, everybody's white. I mean, the very few. And then, you know, maybe you see this. So I mean, I just use opportunities like that. And then, you know, we might have a conversation about the history of certain sports and why certain places look this way. And, and I just think that that's really important. And I'll tell you, I really, as you grow your family, and you have little brown people. I think it'll be interesting. I do have this theory that now now that we're seeing more black women that are married to white men, which is not something that historically for all these reasons. 40 years ago, not as common as a black male, married to a white woman. I'm really curious about how multicultural children raised by a black mother versus a white mother show up in the space in the world and what what lens they have, because I got that conversation. My husband, you know, who put on some Nina Simone Young, Gifted and Black, but is not like driving the conversation. And so I think you No, I do think that I think that those, I would just be really fascinated. That's a Harvard study somewhere, right? Like how we black woman raise chill bite multicultural children versus white women.

Bethaney Wilkinson  14:26

have to look that up. Yeah. So I'm wondering kind of as a follow up to that question. I think a myth that we're taught sometimes is that white people don't have a culture and you're not white person. So you might not be able to speak to this. But do you think it's important? Well, I can speak to me, okay. I have an opinion on it. A great. This is fully an opinion question. So I think if there's this idea that white people don't have a culture then there's not probably not as strong of a sense that I need to racially, I need to help my kids be racially aware because if you're not originally were a parent you can't raise racially where kids What do you think about that like about white parents? And do you perceive that they have any responsibility in raising racially conscious white children?

Staci Lynch  15:08

Yeah, I definitely do. In fact, a question I and I asked this in my own home. Like, I just really struggle I've been in this space of doing race. And I don't know if you've asked yourself, but I've often wondered, what expectation do I have for white people in this work? Like, what am I asking them up? I feel like if I'm, if I'm going to ask you to do something, I should be clear on what I'm asking you to do. Sure. And actually be able to articulate that I can tell you, I don't have a good answer. And if anyone has a good answer, please, we can talk about it. But I really do. I mean, you know, Shawn, talking about his own work, and how I to feel like we are, and I hate it and use this word, but we are sickened by this systemic racism that was created. We are and I really physically feel we are sickened. You know. And so I, we all have work to undo, to undo, dismantle and make us well again, and make us human again. And so I, I and I, and we can't, I can't do it alone. And so I, if we can create spaces where people can test that out and and figure it out and do their own work. But I will tell you, maybe this is sharing a little too much. But I know this is so deep. Because, you know, in my house, my husband really struggles with this. And yet he's made choices of marrying me, he's created these little brown children. And yet he he's a white male, Christian, straight with blue eyes. And so this is so hard for him. And that's how I know this is just so deep. And so that I think we have a lot of work to do. We have a lot of work to do. But but we have to do it. And yeah,

Bethaney Wilkinson  16:58

my last question before we open up the floor for y'all to ask questions. So as you look at the landscape of the work you do in the community or with your kids, you've already spoken to some of this, I want to know what is like the most pressing diversity gap that you see, you're gonna ask them did it was the last question on my list? It

Staci Lynch  17:16

was I did look at them. I did look at them, right type a type A. So I don't know, I jotted some notes down I think and maybe this isn't going to answer exactly. But I think this, the internalized piece of this work is so huge, and it I don't think that gets enough conversation. And so we're talking about white people doing some work and figuring it out. Brown people, black people, we have some internalized peace in this a role that has to be worked on. And I think that if we don't name that, and claim that and speak to that, and start doing something against that, or working towards that, that is a huge sort of divide and gap in this. So I mean, like things like when I think about my own, that taking you back to the zip codes and back and forth from Buckhead to bankid. And Barbara clap. I think I have in my 46 years reflected how I accommodate for white people. It is something I've done always because that's what you do, like so I'll, I'll notice how I'm in a big busy building it 191 downtown and I step out of the way for white person or I did this all through high school all through college, you know, down the whole frat row and drunk white guys were coming towards me and I just stepped out of the way and cower to the left. And I mean, it's just so ingrained in who I am. So I owned I own it, I and I'm actively working not to do that. And what I've kind of replaced in that space is I affirm black boys, right? So so much of our work is to be scared when we see a person of color or male of color. And we cower, and we shy away, but I have like sort of rechannel that energy of like what I call cowering to white people, and putting that to uplift black boys. And that's been really it's intentional, right? So these words that we have to do to make change. I'm very intentional about my actions. And I don't know if it works. I don't know if it's good. It makes me feel good. So as long as that kind of does something, it's a step but I think intentionality about around and mindful of our actions are just really that's the only way we're going to start to move so I don't know if that answers it. But I did want to bring in the internalized peace of race particularly for people of color like that is such a we have so much work to do around that. Yeah.

Bethaney Wilkinson  20:00

Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Have any questions for Staci? Right here? So the question was having a white husband and then White extended family, what are some insights you can share? For people of color?

Staci Lynch  20:29

Well, I think that's a fair question. I think, particularly for my husband, and cash, I'm blasting him or guy. So much of it is around fear. Like I what I've observed him he is so used to being comfortable and confident and navigating the world. People don't question him, you know, he shows up, and he speaks with his deep voice, and he's an authority, that's that white male that he's used to the world, speaking to. So for me to ask him or for the world, to ask him to be vulnerable, to not be in that space to do something differently. That's just, it's really uncomfortable. And he doesn't know how to even begin. And I honestly think that once he, once you know, you can't not know. And once you really kind of unpeel, all of the, of this stuff this, that it's that's a lot of self, you got to do something with it. And I think for a lot of people, it's easier just to stay in denial. Comfort. And then for my in laws, like that generation. I mean, I kind of Yeah, I would love to just whisper in my mother in law's ears, please don't send another white doll with blonde pair to my house. Right? I mean, I haven't had that courageous conversation. Maybe someday I will. I've sort of just kind of not tackled that one. To be honest, I, I just, I just going to focus on other things. So I hope that answer your question.

Bethaney Wilkinson  22:04

We're going to go here, and then we're going to go there. I'm going to repeat your question, just so you know. Yeah. So to repeat his question, in your groups when you're having the 5050. And assuming that it's culturally, I guess not normal or comfortable for white people to talk about race in those interactions with the groups? Do you perceive that the white people are leaning in and actually engaging, despite all the things that might keep them from doing that? Well?

Staci Lynch  22:27

To be honest, yeah, I mean, it's, it shows up in things like we have a little thread of back and forth. So someone's read an article, we'll share it out with the group. You know, it's all mostly it's the brown people that will type in or respond. And you might get someone that might, we do have one pair of white parents and I said most of them, so explain their to Emory professors who have adopted a brown son. So they are very much aware, and they seem to be more in it. So what I find is, when it's personal to you, you step into it. I mean, just ask anything, you know, if you can help, if you don't really have an opt out, you won't. And so, what's that,

Bethaney Wilkinson  23:11

how do you? How do we make it personal?

Staci Lynch  23:14

I? That's a great question. I mean, the system's intentionally designed so we don't do that. Right. So we move people to committee, we don't let people live together in close proximity. And we don't do any of this stuff. So it's designed not to so we just, you have to be intentional. I think you have to force yourself, you have to find a way to insert. I wrote down a couple of just maybe I'll just share them now. Like agitates are things I think that move this forward. So intentional, unapologetic, courageous, uncomfortable, empathetic. Those are just words that I adjectives I, or action words that I just really, in all this time just really have to lean on. So the intentionality is probably the best one.

Bethaney Wilkinson  23:59

Alright, last question going to you, as a white person, if I want to start this conversation, how do I do it without making anyone feel like a special project?

Staci Lynch  24:07

I think you need to choose your black person or project carefully. That would be my best advice. There are definitely people I would not send you to. I, however, am really in the space of creating that because I my theory on that is I can be angry sister girl all day long. But I'm basically asking white people to do work. And if I'm not willing to, at least in some way, enable that or have some part in helping get there. And I will say my bar is pretty low. So if you're willing to like, do it, like I'm going to engage you and I actually this year, this 2019 has been like the year of like me, really focusing on my own work. And so there's a wonderful book called mindfulness of race, and I'll just put it out there. It's a really good one and it's about internal work, right. So it's a good first read for anybody Whatever melanated spectrum you're on. And I think once you do that, and so I would just say, so there are people out there, I think that are willing to create those spaces. So I have a lot of white women and I, most of my circle of white women in particular, I tell if you're raising a child, this is the single most important thing you can do is to have a conversation and make your child and help your children understand what what we're dealing with. So I love that you go volunteer, I love you're saving this over here, but what are you doing at home? And that's the first thing I say to any white woman I sit down with. And then I'm happy to you can fumble, bumble say anything, I won't judge you. But like, that's where it begins. And there there are white affinity circles. There are lots of places and I think there is really good space for that work to happen as well.

Bethaney Wilkinson  25:55

That's great. Okay, we have, we have we do have time for a couple more questions. If they are relatively short, I saw that you raised your hand, then we're gonna go here. What may make sure I want to honor the question on the outset. What can parents do who are raising white presenting and white kids to make space for black and brown kids? Okay, how can we teach them? Yeah, I

Staci Lynch  26:18

think it's a good question. I don't know that I have a great answer. I think I I mean, is your child around people of color? Yes. Okay. You Yeah, I mean, I mean, I think that what I'm trying to do, when I think about raising racially vote multicultural, it's not that I'm asking my children not to own that. They're Whiteside and who they are. But I'm just being really, like clear about kind of the broader context of that. And then my biggest thing is to raise them to be self confident in themselves, right. And so it's really about loving themselves and who they are. And so that when the world puts you in a box, because the world's going to put you in something, and that people are going to see you in either identify is this or other, they will have enough self love and self understanding of who they are. To be clear with that. So I'm not sure that that's helpful. But I think, you know, it's really important for children to define themselves and where they are, and then figure but then also being truthful about the context, the broader context of how people might see them. But the end of the day, I'm teaching, I'm trying to teach them love, love of self love of all, and then they can navigate and saying people are going to put you somewhere, and they recognize that already at six and nine, they're already being put somewhere, then they can have the wherewithal of what to do with that.

Bethaney Wilkinson  27:55

Okay, truly last question is going to go back here. What is one thing a white person white man can do literally tomorrow to begin shifting the trajectory of this work in their life. I

Staci Lynch  28:07

think that's a good one. I'm gonna say. Call it out when you see it. You have to have the courage to call it out when you see it. So I would say not actively doing something but when it comes to you don't have that shower moment later.

Bethaney Wilkinson  28:27

Call it out. Thanks, Staci. Thank you for listening to The Diversity Gap. Challenge are inspired by Wow. So everyone knows you're breathing, right? Make sure you're breathing. Sometimes, when you're in these conversations, you forget that you're human and body breathe. I want each of you to take two seconds to in your mind; capture one thing. One thought one story, one impression anything from this entire night that's resonated with you. And that resonance might feel really great like oh, man, I saw my story in this way. And that way, it might be really uncomfortable, like, oh, I don't agree with that at all, or that makes me feel really scared and uncomfortable. Just want you to take a moment to capture one thing that's, that's resonating in your heart in your mind, maybe jot a note and I also want you to think through just the rest of your week real quick, not too much. And I want you to imagine finding 10 to 15 minutes to think about that moment that thing a little bit more deeply and now I also want you to think of one person in your life you can share that moment with cool I was in doing research for this project, The Diversity Gap. I've been reading a lot on like diagrams of how racism works. And that's what you do. And you're a diversity researcher, you're like, show me the diagrams. And there's this one that is very circular. And then there's this off arrow. And the circle, of course, kind of denotes it's a cycle. Here are things that we do, and don't do that make this keep going. But there's this offshoot that says the only way to break out of the system is through dissonance, and through discomfort. And I think that's the case for all of us. And so as you're reflecting on tonight, and thinking about what this means for your life, I would behoove you to take the most uncomfortable route, because that's where you're going to experience the most growth, the most change. And that's just what it takes. It's ongoing, forever, choosing that dissonant moment. So I want to leave you with that. The Diversity Gap is now alive website. That's a project that you can check out. Very exciting. So thank you, I'm very excited about that. It's amazing how long it takes to get a good website created. But it's up and it's running. So you can learn more about the project at thediversitygap. com. Um, you can join the mailing list, follow us on Instagram, you can also share your story. I'm collecting stories for a podcast. And if you have someone who you just think Bethaney needs to talk to this person as it relates to this topic for organizations and teams. You can also submit that via the website. So thank you to all of you. It's all of our speakers to my team pie when people you people, you guys are incredible. I'm like trying to find all of you. I'm gonna cry if I look at you too much. So, thanks to all of you, thanks for being here. Have a good night. There were so many nuggets of wisdom in that conversation, everything from raising racially conscious kids, to learning what to do with internalized racism. I think my favorite part of this interview was actually the end where Staci gave such a gracious and powerful challenge to white leaders who wants to do something about racism. She essentially says that you don't actually need to go out there and do a whole lot of anything. But when it comes to you, when racism shows itself in your life and relationships, say something speak up. Simple right. Thanks for listening to this conversation and we'll catch you in the next episode. Thank you for listening to The Diversity Gap podcast. If you've been challenged or inspired by what you've heard, please rate and review the show. You can also subscribe to make sure you never miss an episode. If you have thoughts or questions I'd love to hear from you connect with me at thediversitygap.com or on Instagram at The Diversity Gap. This episode was produced by DJ opdiggy for Soul Graffiti Productions