Creative Leadership and Building Our Capacity for Compassion with Vera Leung

Episode Summary: In this episode of The Diversity Gap Podcast, Bethaney talks to Vera Leung, the Creative Director at International Justice Mission (IJM). As a creative director, she is passionate about creating social change through inspired people, powerful stories, and compelling design. IJM is a global organization partnering with local justice systems to end violence against people living in poverty. In her role at IJM, Vera leads the North American creative team, tasked with telling stories of injustice while mobilizing people to act. In our conversation, we talk about leading a creative team, building our muscles of compassion, and about telling difficult stories in ways that invite people to connect and linger, even when it’s tough.

Episode Notes: Get to know Vera and her work here: http://www.veraleung.com

Follow Vera on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/veraleung

Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, story, world, create, creative, lens, question, person, listening, diversity, space, ethnic identity, gifting, team, gap, connect, compassion, celebrated, conversation, emerge

SPEAKERS

Bethaney Wilkinson, Vera Leung

Bethaney Wilkinson  00:00

Hey there, Diversity Gap listeners, I hope you and your loved ones are doing so well and taking care of yourselves in this season. I know for me and my family, it has been a whirlwind. And so I hope you're doing well. Finding time to rest and take a deep breath to play enjoy your loved ones. I hope you're doing well. I also want to let you know that if you haven't heard earlier this month, I launched the Diversity Digest a monthly newsletter, sharing the culture content we all need. If you aren't signed up for that newsletter, hop on over to www.thediversitygap.com and sign up the first Tuesday of each month, you will receive five bites of diversity related content to help you on your journey straight to your inbox. Each email will include one leadership insight, one educational resource one advocacy tip, one practice to try and one story of hope. I really loved sharing the first one earlier this month and the next one comes out the first Tuesday of June. So if you'd like to receive it, sign up for the Diversity Digest today. Welcome to The Diversity Gap podcast where we are exploring the gap between good intentions and good impact as it relates to diversity, equity and inclusion. My name is Bethaney Wilkinson and I am your for today's conversation, I am talking to Vera Leung, the Creative Director at International Justice Mission. Vera is such a gem and I loved learning from her thoughtful and empathetic way of seeing the world around around her. In her role at IBM, she leads the North American creative team. And they are tasked with telling stories of injustice while mobilizing people to do something about it. In this conversation, we talk about leading a creative team about building our muscles of compassion. And we talk about telling difficult stories and ways that invite people to connect and linger even when it's difficult. And so I really hope that you enjoy learning from there as much as I did. I know I've been saying this a lot lately, but I really have taken so many notes, just so many nuggets of insight and wisdom. And just her perspective is just so distinct. And it's a real gift. And so I hope that you enjoy learning from this conversation. When did you first become aware of your race or ethnic identity?

Vera Leung  02:46

How about is such a great question. I hadn't really thought of this question before. And I realized part of that is because I grew up in a family of Chinese immigrants. My parents came to the States in the early 70s. And I was born in the 80s. And my whole childhood was really circled around my Chinese community. And so I didn't actually think very much about my race or ethnic identity, because it was just my life. And so I just grew up in a certain type of environment where it was very, these are the people I hang out with. This is the food I eat. This is the activity. These are the activities that I do. My church that I went to was in Chinatown, I spent Saturdays at Chinese school, which was basically three more hours of learning and reading and writing in Chinese. And so all of my friends were doing all the same things. And so I didn't actually think often about my race or my ethnic identity, I also grew up in a community that was incredibly celebratory of everybody's culture. And so every I remember in elementary school every year, we'd have a multicultural festival. And so all the students would give a report on where's your family from? What is the dish like you would bring in a dish from home? Sometimes we would dress up in our like cultural costume. We would listen to music from all different cultures. And so it became a celebration. And I'd be like, well, this is my friend, his family's from India. Here's my friend her family's from Haiti. So it became it wasn't a thing to think about your race or ethnic identity as something that made you different. It was just something that made us all who we were, which was really, I realized now as I talk to you a lot of friends, that that is a very unique experience growing up potentially so it didn't occur to me that that wasn't common experience. So becoming aware of my race or identity, it almost feels like the opposite happened. Whereas like, I am now more aware that my experience is a little bit different, because it was celebrated so early on, or it just was who I was early on. So yeah. 

Bethaney Wilkinson  05:22

Wow, what role would you say your ethnic identity plays in your life now?

Vera Leung  05:27

I have really thought about it as it's something that I hold on to, as this shapes my view of the lens with which I view the world. So I do see it as its integrated. So I find it a little bit hard to articulate mainly because it's just a filter or a lens. It's not actually something that changes my experience of the world. But it is a oh, I'm seeing that my experience here as a Chinese American woman is there's a richness to it. There's also things that I don't understand about other people's experiences. And so I think it's just it's helping it become more multifaceted, in a way. And I appreciate that I also but I also realize there are some places where I feel like I can't see as clearly because it has been one of the few lanes that I've been seeing my world through what I've appreciated most is just intentionality around having community that represents many different identities, and being able to contribute my perspective in that way. And coming to value that perspective, I realized growing up that because I was surrounded by so many different cultures and perspectives, that it gave me a very multifaceted view. I realized now where I live, now I have less of that diversity in my community. And so now I realize, oh, I bring this perspective that is valuable, and I can provide that experience to others. And so it's been a dance, I think, for me a progression. Yeah.

Bethaney Wilkinson  07:19

I love hearing you describe that, and all of the nuance and the the different perspectives on that. Because it's, I think that's so true. I mean, for whether people are aware of it or not, we each have this one lens that we see through, and that lens is a gift, and it is something that we can use to serve the people in the communities that we're a part of. But it also has its limitations. And and when I step back and think about my work with the diversity gap, and what I'm hoping that people will discover it's that well, a you have a lens, whether you think sees you or not. Your lens is valuable. But see other people have lenses, too, that are equally valuable. Yes. Do we create cultures and environments where we're all able to contribute how we see to whatever it is that we are creating?

Vera Leung  08:09

Yeah, I love that. That is something that I feel is harder to embrace, particularly in these times where I don't know that people don't realize they don't have their own lens, I think they're holding very firmly to their lens, and not necessarily always appreciating other lenses, because I would say, collectively, we're in survival mode. And so it becomes really hard to see something through other people's lens, because we're also in kind of a stress mode in these times. And so yeah, I'm curious about just how people are collectively experiencing those different views or embracing those different views right now.

Bethaney Wilkinson  08:55

Yeah. Gosh, that's so I wrote down what you were saying. So I was like, ah, yeah, I haven't thought of it in that way before. So I want to switch gears just a little bit to talk about your work, because work is very cool. And I want the listeners to hear about it. So can you share with us a little snippet of what you do and how you even got to it? 

Vera Leung  09:15

Yeah, so I work at an organization called International Justice Mission, and IgM is the world's largest organization dedicated to ending slavery and violence around the world. We believe that one of the most important ways to end poverty will require ending violence. And so we work within local justice systems all around the world to rescue victims of slavery and violence, restore survivors to lives where they're thriving restraining perpetrators strengthening justice systems to build safe communities around the world. And there is not a more important time than right now when people are in lockdown all around the world. People who are vulnerable to violence are now actually even more unsafe in the spaces where they're sharing with people who are perpetrating violence against them. And so I feel really fortunate to be working at an organization that is doing really, really good work around the world. I lead the creative team in the North America regions. And so we are committed to telling stories in a way that just moves people closer to connecting with the hurt and the suffering around the world and moving people to action through them.

Bethaney Wilkinson  10:36

Gosh, that's so important. So I have a million questions about breath and make sure that these are that they make sense. Okay, so you lead a creative team? How I guess the short of my question is, how do you do that? How do you go about telling stories in a way that moves people to act and to engage? Again, in my work with the diversity gap and other people in the anti racism or diversity and inclusion space? So much of what we do is it's like, okay, how do I, we need people to do things differently, not just think differently. And so I'm just I'm very curious about where do you even start and moving that for people?

Vera Leung  11:17

Yeah, this is I get this question quite often, especially around areas and stories that feel really hard to tell. IgM works in places where really dark things can happen. There is a lot of suffering in this world. And how do we draw people close to that story, because that's not our tendency to want to draw close to suffering until linger there and to want to really connect in that. But I do think it's important that when we create, everything is a story, everything we're creating is a story whether you're writing a caption, creating a photo, creating our it's all about story. And it's about the story that we're telling each other the story, we're telling ourselves, the story telling about the world that we're living in. It's that lens, those perspectives that we bring to that story. So when it, I really think about two things connection and compassion. So what is my own story. So to the degree that I have access to my own story, and my own vulnerabilities, and my own suffering, or my own journey will be the power of the story, we're able to tell, because you actually can't take somebody where you haven't gone to feel as well. So what resonates with me What's soft and moving in my life, my own feelings of pain and joy, that all comes through in anything that you're creating. And then I think about your story. So as a storyteller, so allowing you the audience to also feel seen and heard and have a place in that story. We all have parts in each other's stories. So that's the connectedness, right? We're not just consuming other people's content, we're actually participating in the things that we create and the stories that we're telling each other. And so my ability to understand how you're receiving this story is going to make that a little bit more successful or not successful in that way. But it matters. Because if you're trying to move somebody to do something, you have to understand Who am I talking to, and have that same type of care for that person that you're talking to. And then I think about the story that we're trying to tell about the world. And the story that we're trying to tell about the world is always a story we're trying to tell about people. And so when it comes into the place of people who are suffering, or celebrating, or whatever that is, that is a story that needs to be honored that experience and how we present that forward. What parts we choose as storytellers to highlight for our audience to connect with, like, it's all about that inner play an inner connection between those. So that's where you think about connection. It's really creating the space for the longing and desire to emerge. So that our journeys intersect our longing and desire to connect with each other so that all of those things intersect like that's empathy. At the end of the day, that's empathy. And then connection becomes the place for compassion and compassion, or ability to sit with people who suffer is what moves people to action. And so compassion is just over and over when I think about building up that muscle of compassion for everybody involved is how we draw people closer together, how we bridge the gap of knowing, well, this is what you need, and this is what I need. How do we come together in that space? That creates a lot of possibility when we're able to be compassionate with each other, and understand and empathize with other people's stories. And so when I think about like, how do I move people closer? That's actually like, I'm always like, how do I connect them? And how do I build this muscle of compassion?

Bethaney Wilkinson  15:20

I love the words that you use, like kind of being awake to what is soft and moving in your own life and how compassion begins there. Like the only you can only go as far and other stories as you are willing to go into your own. How do you sustain that? Because when I think for my own life, it's like, Whoa, I don't know, I need to go to therapy to sit in some of these places, you know? Yeah, I'm thinking for you, as you're like interacting with people and stories that are really violent and shadowy and painful. I'm just wondering, what does it look like to care for our souls? In the midst of that?

Vera Leung  15:58

That's such a good question. I one, believe therapy and counseling is so important. If there was one thing I want everybody to have the gift of is to have somebody hold space for your story. I've found for myself, having an expert hold space for my story has allowed me to explore those depths. And so that actually is the tool to being able to sustain that is to have somebody who's able to hold space and ask the right questions, and help you navigate and explore your story. And connect the dots to why does this thing affect me so much? Why does this particular trauma in somebody else's story activate this feeling in me? And how do I translate that into something that will help other people connect more deeply to this person's story? I do think that is, when I think about how to sustain being in that space of suffering and darkness and challenge like I there's that counseling, but there's also the ability to hold on to hope like if you don't have something the Pope or have a vision of like, this is what it should look like, then it becomes really easy to dwell in that space of despair. And I think you have to have the balance of I believe that there is a better way for this world to be a more loving way for this to happen. And for stories to unfold, and for people's lives to be better, like if you have to be able to hold both. And remember both, especially in those times where it feels really, really hard. And whatever that looks like for you in your life. For some people, it's faith. For some people, it's this determination of like, it's this gut that I just know, for me, it is my faith. And I do believe that there is a higher power that moves us into a place of hope. And that all things are working to be renewed toward good. And I do believe that inherently people are good, and they're moving in that direction. And so that's kind of where my hope comes from. And I think that it is so important to do this work to sustain telling stories to sustain movements to sustain the activism, you have to have some hope that you're holding on to that it can get better.

Bethaney Wilkinson  18:30

I'm wondering for you, are there like specific mediums that you think are best for doing this compassionate? Storytelling?

Vera Leung  18:42

Yeah, I love that question I was trying to think through are there and I, at the end of the day, I think your story gives you the medium to tell it in because there's the story, there's the teller who has a gifting and a certain medium. And when those two intersect, then that's where your magic happens, then people start to resonate and can appreciate it. And so that's why the same story can be told in different mediums and move people to do different things. It's because the storyteller is bringing their gifting to it, their particular lens to it that will unpack and reveal something that is so special to that person's view of that story. And I think the story also can lend itself to like I should be told in this way. And so I think there are many different factors in it. Sometimes it also depends on like, what do you want the person to do? How do you want them to respond? And so there are better mediums for response in that way. But I do think that there's not one best way. I think that if you are a storyteller looking for the best medium, it's probably the thing that is resonating with like what your gifting brings to this A table and that will be your best medium to moving somebody to action.

Bethaney Wilkinson  20:05

Yeah. And that leaves the door open for so many possibilities. Yeah, so many possibilities like you. And I could be telling the same story using our completely different giftings. And, man, that's just really exciting to think about.

Vera Leung  20:18

And that's so much richer, right? Like with that way of looking at a story, there's just not one way. And we could even be telling the same plot points along the story. But we'll call out different things because our mediums may be different. So if you're, I don't know what your media might be. But for me, at least when I create, it's taken a lot of different turns over the course of my creative explorations. But I started out as a graphic designer. And so a lot of times, I love the idea of order. And how I create, even as a designer is so different than how my design team now creates. And so our lens on what art looks like, or what design looks like, and how it communicates through that even the same message can feel quite different across the design mediums. And so it's super fun and rich creates so much depth. We've started doing this with some of our stories, even now, and just saying, like, what does it look like for this to be told in a podcast? Or what might this look like in a film what might like this look like in the written form, and each of those will elicit a different reaction and give us more opportunity? Because it's just a little bit of a different way that tell the story. And that is super exciting to think about it that way.

Bethaney Wilkinson  21:50

Yeah. And that is, this is also a good segue into my next question, because I want to talk about your team. And what is it? What does it been like to recruit and manage and retain a creative team, what comes to mind for you, as what's been great about it, maybe challenging, I just kind of want you to talk about it freely.

Vera Leung  22:12

Man, I love my team. I told them I was doing this today, and I was probably going to talk about them. And so connecting with creative people is one of my favorite favorite things about my job. It gives me so much life to just talk with creative people and understand what is it that drives you creatively? What is it that motivates you? How do you see the world? What is your creative process, like gives you inspiration, like I asked all these questions in the recruiting process, my recruiting process is essentially like, I just want to get to know you like what makes you tick, as a creative person, recruiting and hiring for the team. Oftentimes, I'll just have this like long conversation that's like a GET TO KNOW YOU conversation. So that I understand this person, as a creative, I think a lot about not just the portfolio of work, but who they are holistically, because in order to do work at IBM, and I think in many places where you're having to engage into some hard topics that your whole self has to be brought to the table, there is you're adding so much more when we are looking at not just the outputs of your creativity and giving that some sort of qualification, but really looking at the creative person as a whole. And how are they going to view the world and engage with hard things? And what are they celebrating all of these different things? I love that part of the recruiting process. And then I think that knowing that what drives creative people are what allows them to emerge as their best selves and their creativity is what then keeps them engaged throughout the their tenure, I guess. And on a team, it allows you to understand, oh, this is the best opportunity for this person, I think a lot about how to match my team up with projects or opportunities that will really excite them. A lot of times that's based on their interests or things that they've mentioned. Like I'd really love to learn how to do this, or I'd really love to explore this kind of story. And so really listening to the team, and engaging in those conversations that actually drive to more like this is who I am, is what allows them to emerge in their best work and do their best work. So then retaining the creative team. I mean, I think I joke often that like there are definitely ways to keep creative people happy but It is just creating a culture of what does it look like to really listen to what a creative person bring about listen to what a creative person is saying. And saying either through their work or through like, communicating verbally, but also what is that creative person in need of to allow their best skills and talents and giftings to add a value to the work that they're doing. And there is just a very unique way that we view the world and that we solve problems. And I think that, to the degree that we can create an environment where that is celebrated and can come out safely. That is, that's what I think of when I'm thinking about leading my team.

Bethaney Wilkinson  25:54

And so it sounds like so there are a lot of factors, there's the really intentional listening upfront, and being really thoughtful and trying to get a sense of an entire person, not just maybe what their resume says, but here's who you are, and here's what you love, and, and then taking the time, and they care to pair people with experiences that can add to that, and then what they love can feed into the project. And what I love about hearing you describe that is in a lot of these my diversity gap conversations, I talked to people about what it looks like to create a culture where people all people can thrive on your team. And I think that's such an important part of it, just the listening and the knowing like the fullness of who a person is, beyond what's listed on their LinkedIn bio, or on their, you know, formal skill set. It's like, no, who are you and as fully as I can understand it and see it, and then allowing space, like you said, for that fullness to emerge at work. I think that's really beautiful.

Vera Leung  26:57

Thank you. Yeah, it just takes, as you know, as you interview a lot of people for a podcast, it takes asking good questions so that people are able to answer with who they are, they're able to step outside of that guard or the shell that they have and just feel safe enough to come forward with. This is how I might solve this problem, or this is how I might see this. And it becomes a really fun dialogue of how do we create together? Because you're constantly having that connection or relationship of like, what are we creating together in this moment. And so it just takes it takes good relationship to be able and trust to be able to do that and to build that together. And so I'm constantly seeking ways to do that with my team. A lot of it does feel a little bit like counseling at times, I joke a lot about like, how am I holding space for this person right now so that they, they feel like they can answer these questions or solve this problem or process this out. I think creative people just mean, oftentimes a lot of space to process something.

Bethaney Wilkinson  28:10

What would you say to the leader who's listening to this podcast episode or this conversation? And they're thinking, Oh, my gosh, I want to love my employees in this way. But I don't know if I can. I don't know if I have the margin for that. What encouragement would you offer to them? 

Vera Leung  28:30

I would challenge and call them forward into a space of listening, because I think that's the first step to any any kind of relationship that we have is just how do I listen? Well. And that actually doesn't, I don't know that that takes too much effort to do it. It requires good listening and active listening. But that gesture of just Can I give you space to share? It goes such a long way to building trust and showing that you care. And so that's what I would say is that if if you're feeling like I don't have a lot more to offer, I actually think that the space to listen goes such a long way.

Bethaney Wilkinson  29:20

So my last question for you. I asked everyone this, I guess when you look at the world of creative leadership, I should say, what is the biggest diversity gap that you see? And how do you think we we can close it?

Vera Leung  29:33

So such a great question I did a little bit of research into into what you all are standing for too. And I'm so appreciative of this conversation because I think it needs to happen more. And so I think a lot about when you think about the diversity gap. I've thought about rooms and circles that I've walked into where I've asked myself am I in my fullness in my feminine In any of my perspective and my thoughts, my creativity, am I truly invited and welcome here? And, and the gap is that pause? Where right before I answer that question, it's that mental emotional space where that leaves a little bit room for doubt or fear. And it causes somebody to wonder if who they are and the place that they hold in this world, the giftings that they've spent all of this time to develop and create. What is that pause? Where does that lead? And that gap is a space for an answer to emerge. And it really can go either way. It is that quick of that small moments. And we as a community of creative leaders, and leaders, in general, have a responsibility to look around that room and say, am I, in that pause? When somebody walks in? What direction are they going to answer? Because it's not just about who's missing here? I think that is maybe the first step like 100%, who is missing in this room whose presence and point of view needs to be present in this room, but when they arrive? Like did I actually do my job to fill that gap, and it's not just putting a person in there. And so yeah, we it's our responsibility to bring people to the table. But we also need to be able to create a space where they will be fully appreciated, and celebrated for that perspective. And it is our responsibility to know what that person active is. And to move people into action. I think there's no more important time than now to recognize what are the injustices that are being faced, and the ways in which we collectively as a society are saying you don't belong here, and not only stand in solidarity with the marginalized and the oppressed groups, but to use what we have our power or voice or influence or resources to actually make that change, to put to action, what our beliefs are, and what we say our beliefs are. And I do think that requires a level of self examination. And that's hard, because that reflection and recognition of how we show up and just having that honest conversation with ourselves. So we embrace and honor our own experience and story and our struggles, because that's valid. And that is important. But asking also, what am I doing to contribute and create a more loving world? So I think that might just be the first step.

Bethaney Wilkinson  32:46

Wow, that picture that's so beautiful, and challenging. And the way you described it, I know it's not always a beautiful, it's a beautiful experience necessarily to have that pause. It's actually a really frustrating and painful one that time. Yeah, but the way you articulated it, it was just a really honoring way to describe it. And I'm really thankful for that even mental image. Yeah, this is really great. Thank you.

Vera Leung  33:13

Thank you. There is so much feeling in that gap like that pause. And it's all real, like your feelings of it being hard in that gap. That's so real. And there are other people in that gap. And they just like plow right through and they walk in, they say I belong here. I own that. And it doesn't always have to do with their skin colors. Most of the time it does, but it doesn't always and and it's so beautiful when you see somebody walk into a room and know that they've can fully own who they are. Without that hesitation. We've all collectively done our job. When that exists? 

Bethaney Wilkinson  33:55

Yeah. Gosh, I'm just thinking through how I want, like in my own leadership, and like, how do I take responsibility to create those spaces? Yeah, and I can't wait to go and tell the rest of my team about this too.

Vera Leung  34:08

I love that.

Bethaney Wilkinson  34:10

Oh, Vera, thank you so much for this. I've learned so much from you. I could ask you a million questions about other things. And I'm just happy to be connected to you.

Vera Leung  34:18

Thank you, Bethaney. This has been such an honor and I am so grateful. I think you're doing an amazing job. So thank you, thank you for including me in the conversation.

Bethaney Wilkinson  34:44

Thank you for listening to The Diversity Gap podcast. If you've been challenged or inspired by what you've heard, please rate and review the show. You can also subscribe to make sure you never miss an episode. If you have thoughts or questions I'd love to hear from you connect with me at thediversitygap.com or on Instagram @TheDiversityGap. The Diversity Gap podcast is recorded on Muskogee Creek land in Atlanta, Georgia. This episode was produced by Matt Olin for Soul Graffiti Productions.